2006 2.2 hdi Relay van, non starter. schematics request

[ito]

Hi! I have a 2006 pre facelift Citroen Relay van, 2179cc hdi and need the wiring/circuit schematics, I do not want to download for hours all the other information thats available for all Citroens (i.e. eBay discs etc), just this specific vehicle, in fact today all I need is the engine/fuel/cpu diagrams. Any one an idea where I can get this specific information? Thankyou, Sam
Additionally, does any know what this engine relates to? Is it a Peugeot unit? Does it have an exhaust particulate filter? and if so, what form does it take?

[BX]

What engine? If its the model up to 2006 then probably pas 2.2 with timing belt. If its the 2006 on model then it is the Transit engine with a chain. Completely different engines with different fuel systems.
Edit: should have read your post more carefully. Still belt or chain I don't know what the exact capacity of each engine.

[ito]

Hi, thanks for a quick response. Its a Relay HDI 1800 first registration 31.10.06 chassis number VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]. I do not know the difference between the engines. Thankyou

[Hell Razor5543]

Win the VIN number members with the relevant access can tell you everything about the van when it rolled off the production line.

[RichardW]

It appears to be the DW12 PSA belt driven unit. No DPF. Are you able to extract any fault codes from it? It appears to have an in-tank LP fuel pump - this has to prime suspect for a sudden non-start situation - can you hear it hum at key on?

[ito]

Hi Richard, thanks for this info, I purchased the van as a non runner a few days ago and as yet have not had a chance to do any major kind of investigation but right now doing a bit of research seeing as its a wet day today here (Lower Wye Valley!), but there seems to be good compression with no hint of a start, battery is fully charged and only a few months old, no sign of fluid losses etc, seems to be well maintained (newish oilooking oil filter), so presume it is either an immobiliser or fuel fault. no eml light and no fault codes listed. Owner was somewhat (putting this diplomatically) not ofay with mechanics, but I've noticed that it has had new (4 ) injectors this year by the look of them. Took a chance as the price was good). Sam

[Hell Razor5543]

I would suggest you arrange (with a form member) to get it onto a Lexia to see what that can tell you. There are a number of things it could be, but a Lexia should help narrow it down a bit;

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=29178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ito]

Hi James, good suggestion, I'm ok with OBD stuff, will get the Lexia


software if conventional fault finding proves difficult, van is immobile at the moment!

[BX]

Ok. I have info on that engine as fitter to the C5 with Bosch injection. First the basics. What warning is on the van for the immobiliser. Is the immobiliser being deactivated? Has it an electric lift pump and does it work? Is it pumping diesel to the filter. If there is a priming pump under the bonnet it probably does not have an electric lift pump. Is the high pressure pump pumping diesel to the rail. Is the pressure high enough. Most of the common code readers give you enough info to get out of a hole but I wouldn't recommend buying one. Check the live data to see what speed the engine is cranking at and to check the rail pressure.

[ito]

Hi, thanks for your advice. As I have only a confused history as to why it isnt starting, did some basic tests today: 1. Smelt for petrol at the filler cap. 2. Disconnected the low pressure line (easy access between the high pressure pump and the filter: plenty of fuel getting through and the pump runs for about 3 seconds on switch on. 3. Cracked off No. 1 injector, and cranked: fuel appears but might not be the right pressure. 4. Got a mate to look at the exhaust, absolutely no sign of unburnt fuel (or anything else!). 5. Removed all the fuses underbonnet and checked, all ok, swopped some of the relays around (all the same, either 20A or 30A) and examined one of the multi connectors, lovely shiny contacts with no contamination whatsoever. 6. checked voltage at glow plugs, 8.8V, disconnected main feed at glow plug relay and measured the resistance, at least two of the plugs are functioning. This is stage 1 ! Signs of good compression, pretty quick starter rotation, battery is a few months old and showing green lite. Van unlocks on blipper and flashes indicators ok. Would a low pressure output from the high pressure injection pump generate an error message? How do I check the crank sensor(no substitution available today though), and where on earth is it, looked everywhere near the flywheel/gearbox junction, obviously well hidden! Would failure of the cam sensor generate an error?. Conclusion, its got to be either low pressure (but then no EML, which goes out within 2 seconds of switch on) or the injectors are not being powered up, I have a spare injector, I was thinking of connecting this with some flying leads and an Avo (which would even out any rapid changes in volts) to see if the signal from the cpu is present whilst cranking. Any other ideas? Rain stopped play today! Thanks, Sam

[Hell Razor5543]

I believe that, if there is insufficient fuel pressure on the common rail, the ECU won't attempt to start the engine (by not triggering the injectors). I do not know what the minimum pressure is, but when the Xantia was launched with the HDi engine it was mentioned that there was a pressure of 1350bar on the common rail (19845PSI!);

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hdi/hdi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BX]

Check the live data to see what speed the engine is cranking at and to check the rail pressure.

If rpm is zero or close to it crank sensor is faulty.
If rpm is not in the region 200rpm or more starter is too slow.
If rpm is good and fuel rail pressure isn't 200bar there is a fuel problem.
If all is good then you need better diagnostics.

The remote central locking on most Citroens has nothing to do with the immobiliser. It isn't that difficult to get a key rejected. Is there a key symbol that lights on the dash for a short period when the ignition is first switched on to indicate the immobiliser is active and goes off to indicate that the immobiliser is disarmed. Or is there a flashing LED to indicate immobiliser armed.

[ito]

Well that shows my ignorance, did not even notice that there is a key symbol! Cannot say I noticed any flashing led so looks like I can ignore the possibility of immobiliser faults. Yes, I've also come to the conclusion I need a better diagnostic kit, at just under £60, the Lexia/Planet Peugeot is the way to go(selling on Amazon and Ebay). Just trying to fault diagnose old school style! Sam

[Hell Razor5543]

How long does the key symbol stay on for? It should go out after a second, if the key has been accepted.

[ito]

Hi, presume its the piccy of a car overlaid by a lock symbol, it goes out within a second. Replaced the crank sensor, no joy. Feeding in a bit of deoderant makes it run for a few seconds! so its definately either a fuel or electrical problem. I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of a source of shematics, could then use a scope and have a look at whats going on in the cpu. I purchased a three disc citroen/peugeot manual a couple of years ago, takes an age to load, loads every model back to year 1998 - which is not what I want, now not accepting the 24 digit code so not impressed and reluctant to travel that route again. I have ordered a pp2000 but it will take until the end of the week to arrive so stuck at the moment. thanks.