Xantia Hydraulic Faults

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GeeBee
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Xantia Hydraulic Faults

Post by GeeBee »

Hi guys.
I have had a Xantia 1.9TD for some years now. I really can't fault the car, well except for the poor headlights and brakes, which could be better, but generally I love it. The car has given me many miles of trouble free motoring (nearly 90,000). I haven't had any real problems, just the usual stuff you get with cars and the odd sphere replaced etc; until now...
The car is a 1993 model, i.e. the suspension fully lowers when not driven for a day or so. I have found recently that it takes longer and longer for the hydraulic system to pressurise, especially on a cold morning. Even after the suspension has eventualy pumped up, the power steering remains heavy and the brakes lack power for the first mile or so.
I have changed the LHM fluid (although I only drained the reservoir, and it took 2.5 litres to refill, whereas my Haynes manual states the total capacity as being 6 litres...) and cleaned the filters. There appears to be a marginal improvement, but it is only marginal.
There is another trait with the car that I have had for some time now. The ride height sometimes changes a little all of its own. I have only noticed this happening while driving through town, it seems to happen when the car is stationary at traffic lights etc.
Any ideas???
pwatson
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Post by pwatson »

I wonder if it is your pump?. Our previous Xantia was a 1993 model and I think they were fitted with part plastic pumps. These can develop a crack which causes a slight leak and for the pump to be much less efficient. In ours it meant that the power steering became intermittent at times but did not affect brakes or suspension. Unfortunately this plastic pump is not interchangeable with the later all metal ones - mind you, if they last 90k like yours (and ours) it ain't too bad.
As for the ride height changing at lights, I don't know the reason (others will!!) but it seems to be a characteristic when at lights with foot on the brake and I wouldn't worry unless it happened when driving.
By the way, a new pump cost us about £125 fitted at a local independent bu that was about 3 years ago.
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi GeeBee -
I don't agree with Phil here - on the cause to your Xantia symptoms [;)]
First reason is that your 90K miler Xantia would hardly have it's hydraulic pump worn out. These 1. generation pump types usually last the lifetime of the car - showing problems at much higher mileage - like past 150K or more.
Second reason is that your '93 Xantia is fitted with the servosteering known from the BX - and REPUTED for being a troublemaker at mileage even lower than your Xantia has.
Third reason is that your problem description is in fact quite symptomatic for this servosteering problem - despite replacing the LHM.
The problem component - so well known from the BX - is the servosteering Flow Divider Valve (FDV) - which is responsible of dividing the pump pressure between the servosteering and the main system (brakes & suspension). The FDV is hysterical sensitive to dirt in the LHM hydraulic oil - and known to fail because of exploding internal microfilters that gunks up by the dirt.
I'd suggest you IMMEDIATELY do a proper LHM fluid change - just replacing the reservoir content may even worsen the problems - since dirt in the bottom of the reservoir is stirred up. It's so very important that the LHM fluid & whole system is clean.
Instead using LHM - you should use a special cleaning fluid - known as hydracleanse - specified by Citroen to clean their hydraulic systems.
It's available from www.gsfcarparts.com - or any outfit local to you.
No matter if Phil is still right - cleaning/replacing the LHM fluid certainly will prevent even more future problems.
A guide containing a proper fluid replacing description may be found here :
http://citroenz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27
As for the rear height changing - I'm pretty sure it's caused by air in the rear suspension. This MAY be cured using this procedure :
http://citroenz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42
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Post by alexx »

Well, a member of our local forum had just the same symptoms a two weeks ago, and it was the pump.
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Post by nick »

I had the same fault with a 120000 mile BX a few years ago. The fluid had always been kept clean and the spheres were all only a year or so old.
Took it to Pleiades and they tested the pump and found the output was very low. Fitting a recon pump cured the problem, and it never returned in the remaining 3-4 years I kept the car.
pwatson
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Post by pwatson »

"your 90K miler Xantia would hardly have it's hydraulic pump worn out. These 1. generation pump types usually last the lifetime of the car - showing problems at much higher mileage - like past 150K or more".
I'm on very thin ice here!! Disagreeing with Anders!! Our pump went at less than 90k since we sold the car a year after pump replacement at 90k. Nevertheless, I would do what Anders suggests since using hydracleanse will be cheaper and if it cures the problem, great, if it doesn't then a fluid change will probably do the car good anyway.
Incidentally, the microfilters in the flow divider were changed as a first option on ours also but had no effect so then the pump was changed. Good luck!
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

For some reason - I feel a storm coming up - right into my face [:p]
I keep itching my nose - ensuring it's covered with a solid lasting skin [8D]
It's the pump ! - no doubt - hang it first off without a trial - before the honoured judge himself noses in [:D][:D]
Honestly GeeBee - give that hydracleanse a chance - then take it from there - whatever the terminal conclusion.
As a human being - I stand by my human rights to be at wrong - at any time [^]
pwatson
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Post by pwatson »

No storm Anders - I did say "I would do what Anders suggests since using hydracleanse will be cheaper and if it cures the problem, great,"
You have your right to be wrong but I bet I am wrong more than you!!!
We shall both be interested in GeeBee's follow up to this!
Best wishes and happy Citroening Christmas!
GeeBee
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Post by GeeBee »

Many thanks guys! An excellent forum!
I am thinking that I will use the hydracleanse as the first option, which seems to be the consensus (for one reason I don't think the LHM has ever been properly changed - all the original crimped-on hose clips are in place) and then try the pump. What do you do with the hydracleanse? I presume it is left in the system for a while and then replaced with LHM...?
I will tackle the job over Christmas and let you know how I get on.
Once again, many thanks, and have a great Christmes!
Geoff
pwatson
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Post by pwatson »

I'm sure Anders (or others) will advise, but I think you leave it in the system for a couple of thousand miles. In the meantime, here is an excellent article by Anders on the procedure for cleaning system and replacing the LHM. I presume the same method is used for the hydrarincage/hydracleanse.
http://www.citroenz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27
GeeBee
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Post by GeeBee »

Hi... me again!
Been thinking that perhaps the fact that things are much worse in cold weather is symptomatic of a pump problem. I.E. When the LHM is cold (and therefore more viscous) the pump will have to work harder and be more likely not to work properly...[?]
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Geoff -
That thought is logic - but :
Once the system in fact finally HAS pressurised - you should definately not experience weak brakes - no matter a weak pump.
The pump is allways running with the engine - but ONLY comes at work once the Pressure Regulator (PR) decides the main system needs topping up of the pressure. This means the pump is idling - i.e. pumping the fluid thru the regulator with no resistance - while the system pressure is within limits.
Your problem indications then in fact points towards a possible flat accumulator sphere.
If for any reason the engine stalls (and thereby also the pump) during drive - the only supply of brakes pressure is from the accumulator sphere.
But STILL :
A dirty system with fluid never properly replaced - can make for ALL kinds of odd symptoms - so back to basics we are again.
Get the fluid replaced with hydracleanse ASAP - then run the car with this in the system for at least 1Kmiles - the longer the better the chance all "corners" of the system are cleaned out.
Follow the guide in the link submitted now 2 times above.
It's kind of "airy" philosophy to reflect on any odd symptoms - while we know there is in fact a basic problem. You have to cure the problem - not symptoms. And with car DIY there is only one route : patience & doing the work properly first off. No easy shortcuts exists.
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