very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

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jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 25 Aug 2014, 22:10

I really hope somebody can help me as i spent last 2 weeks
trying to fix my xantia 1.9 td and going ever so slightly mad
doing so. Some history... I have had my lovely xantia over 7
years now and it has been very reliable, however 3 months ago
my car throttle failed, it turned out to be a broken governor
inside the Bosch pump. I had it repaired and re-fitted it,
however I couldn't help notice the cam belt seemed to pull
off the pump sprocket easily even without loosening the
tensioner. My first mistake was to think this was
correct...big mistake...250 miles later in heavy traffic the
cooling fans cut in and the engine started to knock, seconds
later the engine stops. The auxiliary and timing belts were
in shreds. :( . Anyhow... Usual damage....2 bent valves. I
had the head/cam examined for damage and valves replaced by a
professional. I replaced water pump / belts / tensioner and
re-assembed the engine following the Haynes guide. When I
tried to start it but it only splutters and engine shakes
violently. I decided to re-check the timing again and all is
fine. With the pump fully primed I decided to check for
diesel whilst cracking open the injector caps..all is
correct. After  much tinkering I eventually get the
engine to fire and tick over however the engine is very lumpy
and engine shakes allot. loads of white smoke from the
exhaust (un burnt diesel). Water and oil looks fine.
Note.Turbo inter cooler pipes were not connected at this
point. My only fear is that I never removed the injector
whilst being serviced, can dirt cause all these problems? to
n the injectors cause all this? This car was never difficult
to start and ran fine. I so want my xantia to work again and
any help would be greatly appreciated. Jeff

MikeT
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by MikeT » 26 Aug 2014, 16:37

Yelps, that car's been through the wars!

I don't know where to start considering the history. Governors don't break easily - I'd be anxious not knowing what caused it as it's likely a fault to return. Ditto for the belt running off the pulley, something's not right.

Add the latest woes - rough idle and white smoke following a head rebuild - would just have me worrying about loss of compression. Injectors could be tested relatively easy but beware they will "inject" poison (fuel) through the skin at those pressures, leading to loss of limb or worse.

citronut
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citronut » 26 Aug 2014, 18:03

hi and welcome Jeff

did you peg off the cam, pump and flywheel on refitting the cam belt

were are you located

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 27 Aug 2014, 20:17

Many thanks for your comments. Yes I did peg the cam pump and fly wheel. ok time to fess up over a year ago I replaced a leaky throttle seal using a very well written guide on this forum, I think. I did the job all was good, no leaks. The only slight problem was I felt I lost some performance (thought this maybe down to the throttle arm not set in the correct position..just lived with this. It actually turned out to be assembled with the governor in the wrong position. I ended up loosing the throttle altogether. I took it to my local diesel specialist who kindly examined it with me and found the governor in many bits..anyhow to cut a long story short, cleaned up and replaced governor and all worked well. This all happened early this year. I havenow taken the injectors out and taken them to the diesel center to have them checked....it can't be the pump that caused the cam belt to snap can it? Going to get the result, on the injectors tomorrow and hope this is the problem. I will keep you up to speed on the results. Thanks again. Not going to give up yet. Cheers. Jeff

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 28 Aug 2014, 08:37

I think injectors is the wrong thing you are looking at.

you have replaced / repaired one item.. fuel pump.. the problem occured after this. Id be inclined to advise that it is still a fuel pump problem and nothing to do with injectors. A broken govener is incredibly rare on a bosch pump I think.

the xud engine is rather fail safe for getting the timing right due to the pin locking idea. Me.. id still be looking at the pump and would even swap it for another known working fuel pump instead.

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 28 Aug 2014, 10:33

Your were absolutely correct Citroenxm...injectors are all working fine...darn! It's either. 1 fuel pump 2. Cylinder compression. just spoke to the machine shop who re-worked the head and he is positive that the pump timing is out. He mentioned to slacken the pump bolts rotate a little and test...any thoughts?

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 28 Aug 2014, 10:45

Yes! My thoughts are pump position..

Where are the positions of the mounting bolts in relation to the OVAL space on the pump?? The initial position for good running they should be central.. not at either end.

If its at either end she be TOO far advanced (bolts at lower point, pump fully up against engine) or at top point (retarted, fully away from the engine)

Theres 4 bolts to undo, three at the head and one below the pipe outlets, slacken them all and position the pump slots central in relation to the mounting bolt shanks..

It IS a pump issue. XUD blocks are cast iorn dry liner and a VERY tough block indeed. I dont think it is compression.

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 28 Aug 2014, 22:37

Thanks again for your comments..in answer to your question the fuel pump position has always kept the same position during all the work (marked up) its about midway in the slot. Anyhow..your thoughts were spot on as the injectors all tested out fine with the diesel specialist. Back to square one again. Re-fitted and started car up and filmed the whole event with a hope one of you technical wizards may spot something. Note I also filmed undoing each injector cap whilst running checking for engine pitch change, turns out only cylinder 1 and 2 get effected when cap is loosened? Have now decided to re-peg and remove t-belt and start over again. I also tried to adjust the pump timing position tonight but the bolt underneath the pump is impossible to get to. May have to fashion a special spanner for this. Anyhow here is the link to the vid. Thanks again. Jeff.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/tl5s6lg81s7nm ... 9.mp4?dl=0

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 29 Aug 2014, 00:45

This video may work better https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ptk6cu10km1c ... a.mp4?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citronut
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citronut » 29 Aug 2014, 07:33

to add to Paul ( Citroenxm )
if adjusting the pump timing have all the injector pipes ( pump end ) slackened off whilst rotating/moving the pump,
otherwise it is possible to fracture the pipesas they are being flexed

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 29 Aug 2014, 08:28

That's a very good tip ...thanks.

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 29 Aug 2014, 08:32

If the head has had a rebuild are the valve clearences perfectly correct???

While the cam belt is off check them.. belt needs to be off to do it as the cam needs rotating.. just lower the pistons slightly to do it .. the inlet are 15 thou and exhaust 30 thou IIRC off top of my head.. and a tolerance of about 3 thou each way.

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 29 Aug 2014, 08:35

Without wanting to cause insult there is two pegs alone on the injection pump pully too.

are they BOTH lining up with the corresponding holes or are you useing just one.? The reason for two is so you can peg the pump pully and remove the pump without disturbing the cam belt...

citroenxm
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Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by citroenxm » 29 Aug 2014, 08:54

How "professional" were the garage that did the head??

By the way series two xantia aswell.. which doesnt mean much but the basic engine is still mechanical but the advance is electronically controlled.. are all the plugs to the pump conncted correctly?? Also sounds like a dry bearing on a roller there too some strange noise there.. an ecu on the left next to the coolant bottle controls the advance and retard in the pump.


its a timing issue of some sort from the smoke

jma
Posts: 17
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:46

Re: very poorly xantia 1.9td...help!

Post by jma » 29 Aug 2014, 12:03

Thanks for your comments, very helpful. Re-pegging, yes 2 pegs in the pump 8mm bolts. 1 peg in the cam 8mm and a 7.5mm bent rod into the fly wheel (couldn't get an 8mm in as awkward location). Re-engine head re-build.. I used a company with 40 years experience (hackers in Cheltenham) he said it was a very difficult removing the old values, he apparently had to hammer them out! He also mentioned he will shim them and check the rest of the valves (cost£100). Like to think he knew what he was doing? When I ran him about my car problems he very confidently said "timing!". Re-strange bearing noise, yes..got to agree, however I think its the ac bearings on the auxiliary belt.  Next steps..tonight I am going to re-peg and re-fit the belt 3rd time! Make a tool to access the lower pump bolt (90deg spanner). Rotate (retard) the pump by a few degrees and keep re-trying. I will post photos as I go. Oh yes and check all connections to the pump...I did not know there was a timing interface between the pump and ecu? Thanks Jeff