Lucas Epic Timing Module

[bddeazeley]

Hi Folks,

Has anyone ever changed the electronic module/sensor fitted to the Lucas Epic pump and if so is there any setting up or programming of the new module after it being fitted. Hopefully it is a straight swap. Also if you have replaced the module what were the symptoms or reason you had to change it. My symptoms include an intermittent diesel knock, rough running and sometimes smokey. A Lexia session on my Xantia 2.1TD found that the diesel thermistor and cam sensors 1 and 2 were faulty. I suspect these sensors are contained within this module which is very expensive. I have attached photos of a similar sensor.



Thanks,
Brian

[CitroJim]

That is interesting. I always thought that bit of an EPIC was a solenoid and never realised it contained electronics. I've been wondering where the sensors you mention are and now I think we know. Excellent

So no, never swapped anything but that module complete should be swappable from any donor pump.

[bddeazeley]

Hi Jim I am still trawling through the web looking for info and I have turned up several foreign websites that appear to stock this part unfortunately the lowest price I have found is 350 euros .. ouch! I have been unable to find anything about this module on UK websites or anything at all about replacing it. There appears to be more than one version of the sensor (different part numbers) to suit various Lucas Epic pump numbers but I am wondering if the difference is the info that is programmed into the module to suit different car manufacturers specification/mapping. For the Epic pump type on my Xantia (8640A102A) the Delphi part number appears to be 9160-031 I am still suspicious that more than one sensor on my Xantia 2.1 has faulted at the same time and a dry joint on a common connection to sensors within this module is possible. It is a double sided pcb and I know from experience that feed through connections from the print on one side of the pcb to the other side are always suspect. Hey Ho onwards we go lol.

[CitroJim]

Might be worth running a soldering iron across it. Nothing to loose...

I'm following this with great interest. Any new information on the EPIC will be incredibly valuable.

[bddeazeley]

The first pcb solder connections that would be worth checking are what appear to be 2 earthing/mounting pins for the pcb within the metal casing. You can see the 2 pins on the photograph of the inside of the metal casing in the second photograph. These 2 pins go through the corresponding holes on the pcb and are soldered on both sides of the pcb. The pins will be earthed to the car bodywork (-ve) and if dry joint there will be no earth (or at least a high resistance) to that part of the circuit within the sensor/timing module. As you say Jim a donor pump appears to be the order of the day. I wonder if there is a seal between the module casing and the pump body.

[CitroJim]

I wonder if there is a seal between the module casing and the pump body.

I believe there's a square O ring. I can confirm on Wednesday on a scrap EPIC here..

[Peter.N.]

A square ring?

You don't half pick yourself some jobs Jim.

Peter

[kenhall1202]

I have never come across reports of this fault before.
The advance sensor is mounted to the Epic pump body with an O ring and spacer adjustment shims + a spring.
IIRC this sensor is 'potted' in resin which may make access to the PCB difficult.
I would try to source a second hand pump from a PSA 2.1TD engine for bits or as a direct swap.

According to the Delphi workshop manual, adjustment/checking of the advance correction requires an AVM diesel test bench + PC with Delphi software + Delphi special tool so not really a DIY proposition.

[Hell Razor5543]

A square ring?

You don't half pick yourself some jobs Jim.

Peter

I fink 'e means a skware section 'O' ring! Like the ones used on the sferes!

[Peter.N.]

Ah right, sorry.

[CitroJim]

A square ring?

You don't half pick yourself some jobs Jim.

Peter

I fink 'e means a skware section 'O' ring! Like the ones used on the sferes!

Yep, that's right!

[Mandrake]

Is it just me or does that circuit board look very ordinary to be in such a hostile, hot environment ? I would have expected something a bit more ruggedised, not something that looks like it belongs in the centre of a cheap DC brushless fan ?

[bddeazeley]

Thanks for all the replies and information. I think Ken is right in suggesting a donor pump is on order. I have learned that the pump temperature sensor is built into the cam position sensor although they operate independently of each other. This may well explain why the Lexia session showed up 3 sensor faults as they are not individual sensors. I will need to check the sensor wiring continuity from the pump back to the ECU I may just get lucky. I have also come to the conclusion that the Rotor sensor on the pump is a totally different sensor fitted somewhere else on the pump and is not contained within the timing/cam sensor module I am having the problems with ... does anyone know if my assumption is correct. Although there is virtually nothing about the Epic pump on UK websites some foreign websites/forums have lots of info provided you can understand it lol including reprogramming the pump memory (eeprom) now thats scary stuff to me. I have just noticed Mandrakes post whilst typing this post and I agree about heat as it is a major cause of dry joints in electronics causing expansion and contraction of the soldered joints on the PCB. Onwards and upwards!

[kenhall1202]

Hi Brian,
Have sent you a PM - please respond.

[kenhall1202]

Hi Brian,

Your PM was notified but nothing in my inbox???

Plan B

The rotor position sensor is mounted on the end of the pump between the injector pipe connections.

I have a copy of the Lucas EPIC diagnostic manual which unfortunately requires the use of the Lucas Laser 2000 diagnostic machine!!
One such machine was sold on ebay a while back - see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-Laser-2 ... 7675.l2557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However there are three Lucas fault codes(700,701 &702) listed for cam/timing related faults together with symptoms and checks that you could perform.
I have attached a copy of the relevant page together with the ECU pinout/signal/voltage page.