Xantia S1 alarm and plip - Next step 3rd party plip etc.?

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Xantia97
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Xantia S1 alarm and plip - Next step 3rd party plip etc.?

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi All,
I know this has been covered in numerous posts, I think I have read all of them! But I still do not have a working plip. Here's what I have found.

Xantia 1.9TD LX saloon registered 08/1997. Has rear brake light in boot. Owned by me for the last 14 years, plip has not worked for the last three.

Both plips show an infrared light through a camera. Both have new batteries. The little led lights for both buttons on both plips. I have tried every programme combination I can find on the web with no luck. The doors lock and deadlock with the key.

I had windscreen and 'arch over rear door' leaks, both now sealed and rear carpet being dried out. The alarm ECU was attached to it's bracket so not sitting on the floor. Have opened the ECU and found some dust/mud just inside the plugs, this has been cleaned and the ECU has remained open in the house for a week. Have reconnected the ECU above the carpet (unable to take the carpet out so have used a carpet cleaner to suck as much water out as possible and am now doing the newspaper trick - slowly winning the battle).

Now when the battery is reconnected the indicators flash once, then when the door is opened the lights flash (the siren does not sound but this could be dead rechargeable batteries I believe, or could it have been turned off through a Lexia? - no key hole under bonnet) but because the plip does not work I have to disable the alarm using the button on the dashboard. I have had no strange electrical effects at all. So am I right in thinking that the alarm ECU is working correctly and that this is not where the problem lies?

I have opened the hatch in the roof and the receiver has five wires, no apparent water damage (labels all intact), no dust or dirt at all in the dome.

Any ideas what I can try next? All suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks,
Juliet
Last edited by Xantia97 on 20 Aug 2014, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Old-Guy »

If you unlock either front door with the key, the alarm should disable UNLESS the alarm has already been triggered. The alarm is clearly being activated by double-locking the car, so unlocking should de-activate it.

Temporary solution is to not double-lock the car.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
Xantia97
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi Old-Guy,
Thanks for the suggestion. So if I understand correctly, if I disconnect the battery, lock the doors, reconnect the battery then unlock the door the alarm should be disabled? I will try that tomorrow morning. Do you think I will then be able to program the plip to activate/deactivate the alarm and if so can you suggest a reliable method please?
Thanks again,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
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GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Old-Guy »

Xantia97 wrote:Hi Old-Guy,
Thanks for the suggestion. So if I understand correctly, if I disconnect the battery, lock the doors, reconnect the battery then unlock the door the alarm should be disabled?
As you may have discovered by now, NO! Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery triggers the alarm. There is no way that I know to permanently disable the alarm so that it isn't triggered when the battery is re-connected.

Have you tried re-synchronising the plips with the central locking?

This method does work reliably:

Without a spare key you need the electronics (PCB) out of the plipper case so that you can aim the LED at the sensor 'dome' in the roof above the rear-view mirror while the key is in the ignition.

Turn the ignition on to the second (all instrument panel warning lights ON) position, and, with the plipper pointing directly at the receiver, immediately press the plipper's Lock button (1) then the Alarm (2) button, repeat alternate buttons several times.

Remove key, wait a couple of minutes without doing anything before trying out the plipper. Beware, the “CRASH” as the doors all lock is a lot louder inside the car than out!

I suspect that the reason why many people fail in their attempts to resync a plipper is that they don't wait the vital 2+ minutes for the re-set to take place. I know I wasted a lot of time and effort doing the first step correctly several times with different, apparently working, spare PCB units before discovering the necessity of waiting patiently. In fact I had given up after several, apparently failed attempts; re-assembled the original plipper (with new batteries) sat in the car for several minutes re-reading the handbook on the subject, thought "So why won't it work with ANY of these? Bloody Citroens!", pressed the Lock button once more in fury, "CRASH" - all 5 doors locked - nearly had heart failure!

Programming two plippers. (I've never actually tried this, so this bit is hearsay) As it's vital to start pressing the plipper buttons as soon as the ignition is turned on, an 'assistant' to turn the key on command is essential. Synchronising a new plipper causes the central locking to delete the old one(s), so if you are adding a second plipper, you need to synchronise BOTH at the same time.
To synchronise TWO plippers, operate the two plippers, one in each hand, alternately several times: Plipper 1 then 2 then 1 then 2....
Switch off, remove key and wait the essential couple of minutes before testing; it should have synch'ed with both the new plippers.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
Xantia97
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi Old-Guy,
I tried your method on Sunday (with about 10 other methods) and waited 5 minutes after each attempt but still no joy. I'm beginning to think it must be the receiver so will try and find a key to the wires so I can check that the 12v feeds are working at least. I'm used to Citroen electrics, my first Citroen GS (XWO 777T) 30 years ago, didn't like to start in the mornings, various garages gave up trying to find the problem, the RAC threatened to blackball the car. The solution I found was to get up and try to start the car with no joy, return to the house, get dressed and have breakfast, after about an hour when I was ready to leave for work the car would start first time!!!
Any other suggestions gratefully received. I have to have the alarm working for the insurance for my camera gear to be valid when the gear is in the car. I want to try all avenues before going down the route of a third party alarm, although I have installed top of the range Moss alarms onto various Opel Mantas - still have a soft spot for Mantas!!
Thanks,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
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AX - bad mistake!
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Mandrake »

Hi Juliet,

If you have thoroughly tried to program the infra-red plip and it will not program, AND you are seeing an infra-red light through a camera when you press the button, AND the central locking works normally with a key in the door, then the most likely fault is the receiver module in the ceiling above the mirror that you looked at is faulty.

This failed on my Dad's Xantia with no visible signs of water leaks or other evidence. We attempted to repair it but despite spending some time tracing the circuitry and comparing it to a known good one we couldn't fix it. As far as I can remember this is only an infra-red receiver and apart from passing the signal onto the central locking ECU, it does not take part in the "learning" process.

This means that you can borrow the IR receiver module from the ceiling of ANY Series 1 Xantia and temporarily plug it into your car, then attempt to program the keys. (In fact you may find they start working straight away without programming as the central locking ECU may still remember the codes if the battery hasn't been off for too long)

If you have access to borrow a known working one I would try that, or if you can find one cheaply enough second hand it may be worth a punt - but bear in mind the receiver module from a scrapped car may also be faulty especially if the antenna has leaked water into it, so you would be taking a chance that it actually works.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Xantia97
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi Mandrake,
I agree I'll have to try a new receiver - all other things checked as per your post. Don't know anyone with another Xantia here. Seeing less and less on the roads probably because Citroen no longer support them in the Lexia software and seem to have problems with mechanical maintenance as well. Main Citroen garage changed the timing belt on my husband's XM, got it wrong and broke the camshaft, after much shrugging of French shoulders my husband pointed out he was a marine engineer and knew all about much bigger engines, the garage then backed down and replaced the engine at their expense but took 2 months to do it because they only trusted one mechanic with the knowledge!!! Still not quite right though!!

Have had problems with the Xantia ever since she first went near a French garage - have had 5 new batteries in 5 years at 140 euros a go - the answer to everything seems to be a new battery. We have now found the problem to be the wet alarm ECU and since disabling the alarm the latest battery is performing perfectly. ECU has been dried out and cleaned and is connected above the carpet, the carpet underlay is almost dry. So I have had many periods over the last 5 years where the battery has been flat. Broke down last year - obviously the battery, called recovery and the mechanic told us it was definitely a sluggish starter motor, so booked her in for a new starter motor at the local garage only to be told that because we had managed to start her with two full batteries the problem was the battery - new battery number 5, they refused to change the starter motor but didn't do any checks or fault finding. It's a positive nightmare here in France to get a French car fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you think I may have a problem getting the central locking ECU to recognise the plips because of all the battery problems?

Thanks,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Mandrake »

Xantia97 wrote: I agree I'll have to try a new receiver - all other things checked as per your post. Don't know anyone with another Xantia here.
I keep forgetting Xantia's are old now (I still remember when they were shiny and new! :) ) and there really aren't many left now...
Seeing less and less on the roads probably because Citroen no longer support them in the Lexia software and seem to have problems with mechanical maintenance as well.
Not sure where you heard Lexia software no longer supports Xantia's ? The very latest versions of Diagbox (which includes Lexia for older cars) still works happily for Xantia's.

For a series 1 Xantia you need an additional adaptor cable to connect it to the car as it doesn't have a standard OBD-II socket, but that is no excuse for them to say they can't support it!
Do you think I may have a problem getting the central locking ECU to recognise the plips because of all the battery problems?
It's possible I suppose but I'd be trying the receiver first.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Xantia97
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi Mandrake,
The main Citroen garage here told us that they can no longer 'read' Xantias or XMs with their Lexias, the software supplied by Citroen does not support these cars. I know I can buy a Lexia that will 'read' the cars and will do so when necessary, but finding all the plugs on the XM will be entertaining, the Xantia is easy. I have found a garage in Jersey who say they can maintain both cars and have the correct Lexia software, it is obvious that we cannot trust the French garages that we know of to look after the cars as they get older. I've had the Xantia for 14 years and am not giving up on her without a fight!

WIll start looking for a receiver, will try the Citroen parts dept tomorrow - who knows they may have one!
Thanks for all the help,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
Xantia97
Posts: 208
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Hi All,
Well I checked the power supply to the receiver, both 12v feeds were fine and the earth was good, wasn't sure how to check the other two wires. So managed to get a new receiver from a AEP Direct (less than 48h to France) but still no joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have tried all the various programming procedures again and checked the infrared in the plips is working again.

Now the alarm is disabled because I can't switch it off without a plip, do you think I should try with the alarm enabled?

Does the alarm ECU have anything to do with the remote locking function with the plip?

Should I try connecting the battery with the ignition on?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
Xantia97
Posts: 208
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 20:04
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

So from the 20th June until yesterday I have been trying to get the plip working, even had the locking ECU out on Sunday to check the wire to the receiver, that's OK. So out of curiosity yesterday I opened the old receiver and found corrosion (like brown breadcrumbs) around the pins to the infrared bits that are on the other side of the board. Cleaned these up and tried the receiver but still no joy :( So I thought I would open up the new receiver I got from AEP Direct just to compare the two. Imagine my shock when I found the 'new' receiver was in a more corroded state than the old one :shock: :evil: there was even rust on the pins and corrosion around the base of each - see photo - no way this was a new part. The original receiver was damaged by an aerial leak that was fixed before I tried the 'new' receiver. So nearly two months on and I'm back to square one :roll: . I have ordered another receiver from Ebay France - fingers crossed :lol: I have sent an email to AEP Direct stating the problem and also acknowledging that I can't prove the receiver in the picture is the one they supplied - they have not seen fit to reply yet. Therefore, as a warning to all with these older cars, whose parts are in short supply, thoroughly examine everything :wink:

Image
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
Xantia97
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Re: Xantia S1 alarm and plip - help please!!

Post by Xantia97 »

Well the receiver from Ebay France is also corroded and rusted even though apparently 'new' :evil: so now having argument with seller :roll:

So I have given up on the original operation since it appears from this very old post that I may be banging my head against a brick wall and will not be able to programme the original plips - I only have 4 wires going to the receiver http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... arty+alarm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has anyone managed to put a third party alarm with rf plips onto a late S1 Xantia AND retained the deadlocks? Looking at the wires to the locking ECU I think it should be possible with the right kit :?: I know it's very unlikely that the car will be stolen but my camera gear is the concern. Ideally I would like a system that would imitate the original -

a) lock but no alarm
b) lock with deadlocks and alarm
c) unlock

All ideas gratefully received :-D
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
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