EZ Chill Air Con Recharge Kit, anyone?

[Chlorate]

Hi all, tis summerish and getting a bit warm to be owning a black car...

My air con was pretty feeble when I bought it, and now it's a mere breath of cold.
There's still bubbles in the sight glass so I can tell the refrigerant needs a regas and isn't totally flat.

I recall seing this in Halfrauds and thinking it's a nifty idea - would save me booking it in somewhere and all that faff but is it really worth it?

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... 10151#tab4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the obvious questions:

1. Has anyone used these with success? There's a fair few good reviews on Halfords.
2. Are air-con recharge valves universal? (or indeed...would this fit on a Xantia)
3. Is the refrigerent and suspended lubricant suitable for use with Citroens? ( I think it's a R134a system...but what's the oil?)

Best wishes,

Alex

[SaabC5]

Don't bother, you really need to get the correct weight of refridgerant in the a/c system for it to work correctly. You also need compressor oil and this won't do that either. Keep an eye out for Kwik-Fit specials, they tend to do a £40-50 a/c top up service via a proper machine that will put the correct amount of gas in the system. Its not often i recommend Krap Fit for anything but this is one thing they can get right cos they just have to connect and press a couple of buttons.

[RichardW]

Yes and no....

Halfords were doing 2 for 3 on AC stuff recently: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 12&t=48277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The £35 for the tin includes the £10 refundable deposit on it, so only £25. I got 2 tins of gas (510g each - which is more than in either of my cars) and then effectively got the gauge / filling tube for free. Yes, you don't know exactly how much is in there, but you get the pressure gauge which gives a clue. If you weigh the tin as you go along you will know how much you have put in. I would start with 20% of the original fill if it hasn't been done in a while and see what that does to the pressure. The tin includes lubricating oil (albeit probably not as much in a tin as the total charge, but then if the system is not totally flat, most will be left anyway!). You can't of course refill a system that has been opened because it needs to be vacc'd out first....

I added 150g to our C4 Picasso (approx 30% of the charge) which has vastly improved the cooling capacity - I might, however, have overfilled it a bit, as the cooling fan now runs contiually, whereas it was intermittent before. The 307 (which is essentially the same system) was recharged at a garage last week (had to have a new condenser) and this cycles the fan on and off. The pressure however is higher than on the C4....! Once you've got the gauge you can monitor the pressure and top up a bit as required - a 510g tin will go a long way at say 50g/year!

Connections (for R134a) are universal so it will fit. Bit of a PITA on a Xantia as they are on the bottom next to the compressor.

Edit found this chart which suggests 725 - 975g for a Xantia, depending on engine / compressor.

[Chlorate]

Figured it was worth a punt...result!
Got the extension on the 3 for 2 offer and chucked a few psi in (the level was under the 25 psi mark) instantly we have cold again.

[Mandrake]

I added 150g to our C4 Picasso (approx 30% of the charge) which has vastly improved the cooling capacity - I might, however, have overfilled it a bit, as the cooling fan now runs contiually, whereas it was intermittent before. The 307 (which is essentially the same system) was recharged at a garage last week (had to have a new condenser) and this cycles the fan on and off.

The cooling fan running constantly on low speed with A/C on in hot weather is normal I would have thought - is it running at low speed or high ?

Too high a pressure would trip the over pressure switch and run the fans at high speed, so unless you're hearing them screaming along at high speed I doubt you've overfilled it.

As to why the 307 cycles the fan on and off - its probably that the evaporator is getting right down near zero degrees, which causes the A/C clutch (and probably the fan) to shut off to prevent the evaporator from freezing. When it warms a few degrees it cycles back on.

Either the A/C is running more efficiently than the C4 (thus reaching near zero in conditions where the C4 isn't) or the air ducts are a bit blocked causing lack of flow of warm outside air thus allowing the evaporator to freeze too easily.

Is there plenty of cold air flow on the 307 ? If so its probably just running really efficiently, and nothing to worry about, if not the ducting may be blocked.

On the C4 as long as the air flow is good and cooling is good I wouldn't worry about it either. If its not particularly cold then it might even do with a bit more gas.

A Lexia session will show the evaporator temperature on both cars, I'll bet that on the 307 its getting colder, thus causing it to cycle to prevent freezing.

[RichardW]

Think the fan cycling is normal - it saves a few mg on the CO2 I expect! The C4 used to do it.... Maybe it's just in an intermediate state of charge - not going to anything about it just now anyway

[KP]

A lot of cars will run a fan on low speed when AC is on so as to stop the condensor getting too hot as it does sit next to the front rad.

Another reason why when ac is engaged the car will only engage the compressor if there is some air moving over the evaporator with the interior fan engaged. Stops the thing cracking from getting to cold or icing up..

[steelcityuk]

The offers that Halfords have are really good when you have access to a A/C service device. This allows you to put the system into a deep vacuum boiling off any moisture and removing it before recharging with the 'tins'. I did this with a friends MX5 a couple of years ago, it's still working well and was cheaper than a visit to Kwik Fit. I think the 'tins' are fine if used sensibly.

Steve.

[Xaccers]

Gave a can a go over the weekend and now I have cold air which is lovely, however I can't get the pressure above 25psi

[Chlorate]

I found that too Xac.
It seems to take bleedin' ages to get pressure into the system anyway. You can speed things up by inverting the cylinder and giving it a bit of a shake to liven it up a bit. However on inspection of the instructions it said to twiddle the bezel on the gauge around so the arrow is pointing to the external temperature (in F) and anywhere within the lines either side is meant to be fine.

[KP]

Ignore the pressure gauge as you want to know the weight that's in there.

Too much pressure and the system turns off. Keep an eye on it in a few weeks with a check and see if it drops. If it does by a good amount you have a leak.

[Xaccers]

I found that too Xac.
It seems to take bleedin' ages to get pressure into the system anyway. You can speed things up by inverting the cylinder and giving it a bit of a shake to liven it up a bit. However on inspection of the instructions it said to twiddle the bezel on the gauge around so the arrow is pointing to the external temperature (in F) and anywhere within the lines either side is meant to be fine.

If I do that, then the temperature (around 77F) would mean it needs 50+psi and it just won't go above 25.

[addo]

Perhaps the compressor is shagged.

[steelcityuk]

As KP says it's really down to the weight of the refrigerant charge. Unless you vac out the system and start clean you have no idea how much existing gas your system has not to mention moisture load. Also different gases are going to have different vapour pressures, additives could alter this. Be very careful not to get liquid gas into the low pressure side of the system, it can lead to compressor damage. Is the psi reading whilst the A/C is off or on? As the compressor engages/disengages the pressure in the low side of the system will fall and rise.

Steve.

[DickieG]

A few issues here, the pressure gauge on these cans only reads the low side so you won't learn a lot from it as it's more the high side that you want to look at and as has been mentioned you really do need to weigh the gas to have some idea of how much gas in in the system.

If the system is slightly overcharged it'll run perfectly normally until a really hot day (especially when being used for over 1/2 hour) where the system will slowly but surely build up pressure to the point where even the fans running on max speed won't be enough to lower the system pressure. At this point the compressor will be cutting in and out with such ferocity that it will feel as if the engine is cutting out/very bad misfire yet no cooling will take effect leaving both you and the car rather hot and bothered. Needless to say it doesn't take a lot of imagination to work out what effect this might be having both on the A/C system and engine etc. I discovered this several years ago when the A/C was overfilled on one of my Xantia's many years ago by an A/C specialist , not good and best avoided!

A system where the compressor keeps cycling from first use with little effect on cooling is often down to a low charge of gas.

Should you use somewhere such as Kwikfit for a recharge be aware that having watched them operate the recharge machine several times on company cars I've yet to see the correct procedure followed when it comes to disconnecting the hoses from the car which results in somewhere around 100 gms of gas not being charged into the system. What should be done is for the taps on the machine to be closed then the high side hose to be disconnected and after the engine has been left running for three minutes then open both the high and low side taps which allows the compressor to draw in the last 100 gms of gas for a full recharge. What invariably happens is the machine sends it's charge into the hoses then when the appropriate amount has been weighed into the hoses (not all in the system) the "operative" disconnects both the high and low side hoses leaving the last 100 gms in the hoses.

Should you be in my neck of the woods and want your system recharged correctly give a shout.