Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

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KennyW
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Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Hi All,

Fitted new pipes to the old Xantia plumbing and no leaks from them but the rear o/s cylinder is leaking from seal location it is the usual problem excessive wear to the cylinder its self.
There are 2 problem areas and will use the Dowty seal method employed by Chris (c.morewood) previously posted.

Chris sent PM re seals.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
c.morewood
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Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

Haven't received the pm.. try c.morewood at talktalk.net
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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KennyW
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Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

Tried 2nd PM.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Chris

I think I have no option but to follow your route as the other options are more expensive. I have this funny feeling that the other side is going to do the same.A small seep of green fluid seen at seal but it may have come from elsewhere

As I see it there 3 options

1: Your method Dowty seals
2: change supply pipe and fit a later rpo model
3: I have an American based glue (very similar to araldite metal) which is specifically designed to bond with metal and is just as hard.Will this work along with the seal ?

AS anybody any thoughts, Citrojim I know you were going to experiment with other rear cylinders last year.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1041
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 47

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

If you're needing to change the pipes, then now is a good time to do it and buy secondhand cylinders.. you should be able to get a pair for about
£60 ish.. there are a couple on EBay.. make sure they're estate/saloon sizes as the bore is different..it doesn't matter if they're corroded as you can still use the dowty seals. (that would work out at just over £100, pipes cylinders and seals) But if you don't need to change the pipes then just the dowty seal seems to me to be the best way forward..you don't need to glue them into place, just use blue hylomar on both sides. This has the benefit of holding the seal roughly in place as you tighten the sphere. the way the seals work, you probably don't need the blue hylomar, they just work on the pressure of the seal between the cylinder and the sphere. I'd say they have to be done up slightly tighter than the normal seal, but I've had no problems with them.
Whe it does come time to do the pipes, you can see what I had made up, with the c5 ends. If you do go that way .. get the c5 ends cut to about 14 plus cm. The ones I had were 7cm and aere now strapped to the anti roll bar as I didn't have enough length to bend them propery....you live and learn.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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Post by addo »

There's a product called Belzona 1111 which is quite tough for metal repairs.
c.morewood
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Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
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'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 47

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

Of course the biggest problem is still the wire pins holding the cylinders in place.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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KennyW
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Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Well shock horror, the wire pin came out with no trouble :lol:. I spent more time setting the car up :lol:
Next will be removing pipe union so i need to purchase 10mm flare spanner

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

KennyW wrote
Well shock horror, the wire pin came out with no trouble :lol:
I thought that the pain and frustration of removing those pins, was a necessary rite of passage. I mean mine came out eventually but not before I had assembled the sort of weaponry you probably should carry a licence for, and developed a vocabulary of "frustration releasers" which I didn't think I would be capable of :)

Image

Well done though and good luck with the rest of the job.

regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
c.morewood
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'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 47

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

Unbelievable!!!!
After the days of struggling cursing and crying we had Neil. I know I almost gave up several times.. It was only that I needed the car and couldnt get the suspension arm nut off.. rust and rounded.. that I persevered.
Can I have some of your luck Kenny?

Mind the tiny O ring that sits inside the cylinder at the end of the union... don't loose it.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Well it was a nice day so started the final push to remove rear hydraulic cylinder and guess what :!: . I had it removed within the hour and lip ground down before postman pat arrived. :-D

But there is mention of a small 'o' ring by Chris Morewood well I never found one. Can I confirm exactly where this 'o'ring should/would be :?:

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1041
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 47

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

My O ring Kenny was at the bottom of the pipe union sitting loose in the hole, not attached to anything.. I only discoverd it when I had the 2nd cylinder out and then noticed the other lying on the floor... they're very small.. But then maybe they're not needed.
I'm glad it was so easy with the cylinder removal for you.. now take care grinding down the lip on the cylinder.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by KennyW »

Chris,

My 'O' Ring was still on the pipe when I removed it.

I have ground down the cylinder and it is all ready to be put back together. I must agree with you Chris,be very careful with the grinder because of the speed at which it is removed but a brilliant solution to the rear cylinder problem.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Kenny

Image

I don't think I have ever used my angle grinder for anything where precision was required. I have cut and destroyed lots of stuff with it though, including nearly destroying my ankle when my trouser bottoms caught up in it :)

Any pics, or tips on this stage to help others thinking of doing the same job? Are there different "grades" of grinding disc maybe giving a better finish with a "finer" disc? Looks like there is lots of potential for disaster with the angle grinder (especially if it was in my hands)-do you think you could achieve a flat enough surface to create and effective seal just with hand tools?

I think Chris got his cylinders milled at a workshop to achieve the flat surface.

Regards

Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
c.morewood
Donor 2023
Posts: 1041
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 14:38
Location: Kemnay, Nr Aberdeen, United Kingdom
My Cars: '00 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 65K "W"
'99 Xantia 110 bhp Hdi SX Estate 310K SORN "V"
'98 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate 150K Sold "T"
x 47

Re: Well its good news and bad news!!!!!!!!

Post by c.morewood »

No Neil I got my cylinder "repaired" at a workshop, where they actually dropped molten aluminum on the piston and then pushed it into the bore resulting in a scored bore.. it was useable, but pressurised the return system so that I had a permanant leak.
It would be a long job to sand away that much aluminum by hand... I ground it down till there was next to no shoulder then used fine emry on a flat metal table for the last little bit.
I was considering cutting out the bottom ball joint today.. what a pain if you don't use the right technique.. see my other thread.
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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