Turbo Woe's

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rookie
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Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

Need help and info from you kind chaps.

I have a synergie hdi 2001.
When you drive it, it appears that the turbo is not working. It has no acceleration to speak of and even stand still if you rev it it falters to get even above 2700 revs though if you persist it will reach about 3500 rpm "just".

I stripped the turbo off, the inlet side of the turbo has a smear of oil in it, the plastic air pipes to the inlet had a small dribble of oil in them but nothing extensive.
The exhaust side of the turbo seems fine with just a light covering of soot.

I blew into the inlet side (with an air line) and the turbo spun up though it does have a small amount of sideways movement but none horizontally.

On the nearside of the cylinder head there is a small vacuum valve which operates a rod going through the rocker cover into the cylinder head. When I did a vacuum test on that valve, it was not moving and upon stripping it I found that the diaphragm inside that valve was split.

I am trying to locate a new diaphragm or complete valve, but what is it and what does it do and could it be responsible for the turbo not working ?

When the engine is ticking over I get blue smoke coming out of the exhaust which stays constant when the car is driven.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks fella's
rory_perrett
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rory_perrett »

Sorry mis read your post
rookie
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

Thanks Rory. I am just a bit confused about what the vacuum valve does/ It is nowhere near the turbo or the exhaust.
It sits at the from corner of the head as you look at it and the arm that it moves goes into the head/rocker cover.

I have had a vacuum pump onto the waste gate on the turbo and can see that it is moving and holding the vacuum, but could the leaking vacuum on the unit I mentioned above be depleting the vacuum in the system necessary to run the waste gate ?
citroenxm
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by citroenxm »

Quite possibly Rookie, it needs to be a fully sealed system on the Vaccuum for it all to work. If theres no reserve Vac, then things wont work. Is it a 90 or a 110 engine? I know 110 engines NEED a vaccuum to close the wastegate, other wise it stays open and therefore No turbo.

The 90 engine uses a different type of turbo which I beleve has an internal pressure sensing Wastegate.. rather then a Vaccuum operated one.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by citroenxm »

Can you get a picture of this "Offending" valve, or the engine bay up on here???
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
rookie
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

The valve is exactly the same as this one (though I believe this particular one does a different job), the valve is mounted at the top right hand corner of the engine as you look at it from the front.
Attachments
vacuum valve.jpg
rookie
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

Another clue to it's location would be if you stood at the passenger side wing looking into the engine bay, the valve would be mounted on the top left hand corner of the engine facing you. I can't get an actual; photo of the engine as the car is in the workshop on the lift and I don't have acess until tommorow morning
rory_perrett
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rory_perrett »

It was your description of a rod going through the cylinder head that threw me.

Back to the vacuum, as Citroenxm says you need a vacuum to operate the Turbo waste gate. Picking up from his earlier post (and my feeling that may Xantia Hdi had less go than it should) I had a look at my vacuum pump. Connecting a gauge direct to the pump showed it was creating a 600mm Hg vacuum. Measuring the vacuum before and after the turbo waste gate actuator electro valve showed a reading of 200mm Hg. Measuring before and after the egr electo valve showed 600mm Hg before and 200mm Hg after. So the fault is in the egr system but the loss of vacuum was preventing the turbo from operating properly.
Last edited by rory_perrett on 13 Apr 2014, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by citroenxm »

Im trying to picture this. I have the 8v 110 engine in my Xantia at 275k with ZERO performance issues now I swapped the Vaccuum pump. Though the Common issue for lack of turbo is useually the vaccuum electro valves that control the Wastegate and EGR valves.. The engine changed in 2001 and I think a Air Flow Flap was added to the Intake pipe to help control air flow and emissions more. Hence asking for a picture of one.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
RichardW
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by RichardW »

Found it I think - item 8 below. Appears to operate a set of butterflies in the intake manifold - not seen it on any other HDis....!

Image[img]

Not a disaster from Citroen:


Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
0000036394 DIAPHRAGME 19.38 GBP 23.26 GBP 23.26 GBP

It looks like all the valves are linked together on the vac side, so a loss of vac here would result in no vac on the turbo actuator, and hence no boost. Try blanking it off and see what happens?
Richard W
RichardW
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by RichardW »

citroenxm wrote: The engine changed in 2001 and I think a Air Flow Flap was added to the Intake pipe to help control air flow and emissions more. Hence asking for a picture of one.
Looks like you are spot on as usual Paul :P
Richard W
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by citroenxm »

RichardW wrote:
citroenxm wrote: The engine changed in 2001 and I think a Air Flow Flap was added to the Intake pipe to help control air flow and emissions more. Hence asking for a picture of one.
Looks like you are spot on as usual Paul :P
:oops: :oops: :oops:
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
rory_perrett
Posts: 715
Joined: 05 Nov 2001, 19:18
Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
My Cars: Xantia Exclusive 110Hdi Estate 1999
x 1

Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rory_perrett »

Just looking at that on Citroen Service as well - you learn something new every day - what a wonderful pile of complication that seems to be, a choke on a diesel engine? New one on me. That would explain lack of rpm if the "normal" position is closed restricting air supply to the engine then that will limit power and also may lead to over fueling and smoke out the back.
rookie
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

Hi Citro

Sorry buddy, it's my cack handed way of trying to describe something I know very little about.

That looks exactly like what I was trying to describe, fantastic !

Now all I have to do is find out if these are closed or open by default.

The split in the rubber that i found was only small but it was certainly enough to stop this valve from working. Would that small split be enough to prevent the whole Vac system from operating correctly ?

Would these flaps open and close on their own with the suction from the engine or would they remain in whatever position the closed vacuum valve leave them in ?


cheers
rookie
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Re: Turbo Woe's

Post by rookie »

One more question.

Would this also cause the blue smoke from exhaust ?
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