Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Moderator: RichardW
Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Hi All,
I'm planning to have the inlet manifold out on my Xantia V6 again this weekend to swap over injectors, in the process I will have to replace the upper inlet manifold gasket again.
I am becoming suspicious that despite fitting a new gasket each time, I may still have a small vacuum leak on one or more inlet runners causing a mixture imbalance between cylinders. Perhaps due to warping of one of the manifold faces.
Every time I remove the gasket I find a significant amount of oil on the faces where the gasket sits, which was fitted dry, as in the photos in the below posting:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 09#p372309" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another clue is that my ICV is nearly fully closed to achieve a hot idle (about 25% opening on the Lexia, where 20% is fully closed and 30-35% is normal) and that if I block the ICV supply hose the idle speed only falls from 650 to 560 rpm when it should nearly stall. I've so far been unable to find any other causes of vacuum leak.
So in an effort to rule out (or fix) a vacuum leak at the upper inlet manifold gasket, I want to try some sealant in addition to the gasket this time. The gasket is a cardboard type and both halves of the manifold are alloy.
Anything with silicone in it is ruled out as that is highly toxic for the oxygen sensor, also it needs to be something that doesn't set hard making it difficult to get apart again - I don't want to be scraping off half glued on bits of gasket next time I have the manifold off! So a sealant that will "let go" and not tear the gasket to bits on removal is a must. I just want something that will seal a bit better than the gasket alone if the manifold faces are not as flat as they should be.
Any recommendations ?
Also given its a cardboard gasket, is the torque of the mounting bolts critical to get a good seal ? Previously I've only ever tightened them "by feel" but now that I have a torque wrench if anyone knows the correct figure for the bolts either side of the gasket I'll make an effort to torque them correctly too.
I'm planning to have the inlet manifold out on my Xantia V6 again this weekend to swap over injectors, in the process I will have to replace the upper inlet manifold gasket again.
I am becoming suspicious that despite fitting a new gasket each time, I may still have a small vacuum leak on one or more inlet runners causing a mixture imbalance between cylinders. Perhaps due to warping of one of the manifold faces.
Every time I remove the gasket I find a significant amount of oil on the faces where the gasket sits, which was fitted dry, as in the photos in the below posting:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 09#p372309" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another clue is that my ICV is nearly fully closed to achieve a hot idle (about 25% opening on the Lexia, where 20% is fully closed and 30-35% is normal) and that if I block the ICV supply hose the idle speed only falls from 650 to 560 rpm when it should nearly stall. I've so far been unable to find any other causes of vacuum leak.
So in an effort to rule out (or fix) a vacuum leak at the upper inlet manifold gasket, I want to try some sealant in addition to the gasket this time. The gasket is a cardboard type and both halves of the manifold are alloy.
Anything with silicone in it is ruled out as that is highly toxic for the oxygen sensor, also it needs to be something that doesn't set hard making it difficult to get apart again - I don't want to be scraping off half glued on bits of gasket next time I have the manifold off! So a sealant that will "let go" and not tear the gasket to bits on removal is a must. I just want something that will seal a bit better than the gasket alone if the manifold faces are not as flat as they should be.
Any recommendations ?
Also given its a cardboard gasket, is the torque of the mounting bolts critical to get a good seal ? Previously I've only ever tightened them "by feel" but now that I have a torque wrench if anyone knows the correct figure for the bolts either side of the gasket I'll make an effort to torque them correctly too.
Last edited by Mandrake on 25 Feb 2014, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Simon, I hope this is of help;
http://worldtracker.org/media/library/C ... 357334.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have also heard of hermetite paste (various colours), and I have a recollection of my mother using some on her 504 estate when the head gasket needed replacing, but I cannot remember colour or application (well, it was 30 years ago!).
http://worldtracker.org/media/library/C ... 357334.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have also heard of hermetite paste (various colours), and I have a recollection of my mother using some on her 504 estate when the head gasket needed replacing, but I cannot remember colour or application (well, it was 30 years ago!).
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
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Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
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Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Thanks James,
I don't see inlet manifold tightening torques listed though. Also there are some curious errors on that page casting an eye over the specs - firing order 1-4-3-2 on a V6 ? Where did the other two cylinders go ?
Also, 1.8 litres of oil in a gearbox oil change ? (The Xantia V6 only came with an auto, which is 3.3 - 4 litres for a change) Those errors make me wary of trusting anything else on the page.
I've just remembered that I have seen the torque (and tightening order!) for the inlet manifold bolts in the Citroen service data in Docbackup - I'll see if I can find it tonight.
I don't see inlet manifold tightening torques listed though. Also there are some curious errors on that page casting an eye over the specs - firing order 1-4-3-2 on a V6 ? Where did the other two cylinders go ?
Also, 1.8 litres of oil in a gearbox oil change ? (The Xantia V6 only came with an auto, which is 3.3 - 4 litres for a change) Those errors make me wary of trusting anything else on the page.
I've just remembered that I have seen the torque (and tightening order!) for the inlet manifold bolts in the Citroen service data in Docbackup - I'll see if I can find it tonight.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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- x 2991
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
I just noticed them myself, which suggests a 4 cylinder engine and a BE3/ML5T gearbox. Sorry to have wasted your time.
EDIT; Kept looking, and found this. It looks a lot more useful;
http://www.citroenkerho.fi/xantia/pdf/t ... 0ES9J4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT2; you might need one of these as well;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-TORQUE-AN ... 19e5740796" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT; Kept looking, and found this. It looks a lot more useful;
http://www.citroenkerho.fi/xantia/pdf/t ... 0ES9J4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT2; you might need one of these as well;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-TORQUE-AN ... 19e5740796" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Simon,
CT1 is the stuff you need:- " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is also a solvent/de greaser sold alongside called Multisolve which can be used for cleaning and removal. They are both fantastic products. Can use it on aquariums so shouldn't upset the sensors.
Cheers
Paul
CT1 is the stuff you need:- " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is also a solvent/de greaser sold alongside called Multisolve which can be used for cleaning and removal. They are both fantastic products. Can use it on aquariums so shouldn't upset the sensors.
Cheers
Paul
J reg 1.9d auto BX first Citroen
M reg 1.9d auto Xantia lx
N reg 1.9 td Xantia VSX Estate
T reg 2.0HDI Xantia Exclusive Estate Present car
M reg 106 diesel red
L reg 106 diesel white
02 Saxo 1.1i desire wife's present car(sadly now very ill cambelt gone- Doh)
M reg 1.9d auto Xantia lx
N reg 1.9 td Xantia VSX Estate
T reg 2.0HDI Xantia Exclusive Estate Present car
M reg 106 diesel red
L reg 106 diesel white
02 Saxo 1.1i desire wife's present car(sadly now very ill cambelt gone- Doh)
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Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
I use ordinary bathroom silicone sealant, if you apply a bead around the manifold and then leave it to set overnight you have virtually a rubber seal when you refit it. Never failed for me.
Peter
Peter
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Thanks guys, but as I mentioned in my original post silicone based sealants can't be used on the intake manifold of a modern petrol engine as the silicone goes through the combustion process and contaminates/poisons the oxygen sensor. See the following:
http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/Diagnosis/ ... ex.asp#q19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On an old petrol engine without an oxygen sensor or a diesel engine (which has no oxygen sensor) it may be ok, but not for a modern petrol engine.
http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/Diagnosis/ ... ex.asp#q19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On an old petrol engine without an oxygen sensor or a diesel engine (which has no oxygen sensor) it may be ok, but not for a modern petrol engine.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
It's only going to get into the air stream if you apply it like a gorilla .
A thin bead is all that's needed. It shouldn't even squidge out to the edge of the gasket.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
A thin bead is all that's needed. It shouldn't even squidge out to the edge of the gasket.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars. - x 1197
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Ah right, I have only run diesels for about the last 30 years, didn't know about that.Mandrake wrote:Thanks guys, but as I mentioned in my original post silicone based sealants can't be used on the intake manifold of a modern petrol engine as the silicone goes through the combustion process and contaminates/poisons the oxygen sensor. See the following:
http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/Diagnosis/ ... ex.asp#q19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On an old petrol engine without an oxygen sensor or a diesel engine (which has no oxygen sensor) it may be ok, but not for a modern petrol engine.
Peter
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
I use blue Hylomar for most tings these days - it seems to have inhereted the mantle of red Hermetite.
If it's good enough for Rolls-Royce...
If it's good enough for Rolls-Royce...
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Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
I generally used Blue Hylomar too, but that was a few years back now.
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
This one ?
http://hylomar.com/hylo-wp/wp-content/u ... ssue_6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Looks like just what I'm after, fuel and heat resistant, no silicone content and not hard setting.
Where's the easiest place to buy some before the weekend ? Do any of the major hardware stores carry it on the shelf ?
http://hylomar.com/hylo-wp/wp-content/u ... ssue_6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Looks like just what I'm after, fuel and heat resistant, no silicone content and not hard setting.
Where's the easiest place to buy some before the weekend ? Do any of the major hardware stores carry it on the shelf ?
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
When I originally read Simon's post, my immediate thought was also Blue Hylomar, but that's because I've used it over the years, and still have some in the garage. I thought there'd be a few more modern offerings, so kept mouth shut Blue Hylomar is supposed to be non-setting.dnsey wrote:I use blue Hylomar for most tings these days
Main problem as I see it, is that Simon wants a sealant that is very easy to remove, both from the metal faces, and the gasket itself, the latter presumably to allow re-use of the gasket.
Edit: just seen last post, so Blue Hylomar is still manufactured - hope it works for you, Simon
Last edited by Xantidote on 25 Feb 2014, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
Martin
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
No I don't want to reuse the gasket, they're supposed to be replaced every time you remove the inlet manifold.
What I don't want is a mess of torn lumps of cardboard gasket glued to the manifold that needs careful scraping and cleaning before refitting...
What I don't want is a mess of torn lumps of cardboard gasket glued to the manifold that needs careful scraping and cleaning before refitting...
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Recommended inlet manifold sealant ?
Probably Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hylomar-HMMS00C ... ue+hylomar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If necessary, I have a prime account and can order it for you if you wish.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hylomar-HMMS00C ... ue+hylomar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If necessary, I have a prime account and can order it for you if you wish.