Full XM factory manual on CD

noz · Post by **noz** » 22 Nov 2003, 02:26

Hi All,
You may recall a while ago I talked about the prospect of an XM manual on CD. At the time I was led to believe Citroen produced such a beast and I was looking for partners to share the cost. However it turned out to be rubbish, no such thing exists.
I therefore turned to the prospect of creating one. I have scanned in all 1746 pages fof the factory manual and have burned the whole 645MB on to CD. It has taken me hours and hours of work to achieve this.
I am now in a position to assist my fellow XM owners by offering the toils of my hard labour for a small contribution.
I am offering copies of the CD for £30 or the equivalent in Euros. Postage, depending on country would be extra but probably only £2 or thereabouts. Initially the cost is to cover some of the many hours spent putting this together, the CD burner which I had to buy and the software I had to buy to compile the manual.
I'm not being greedy. Depending on the response and after my CD burner and software have been paid for, I will consider reducing the price. My only aim is to spread the amount of technical information about the XM so that owners stand a chance of repairing the car by themselves rather than being ripped off by uneducated scheisters masquerading as Citroen experts.
You have to understand that I'm not a dealer or any such thing. I'm not even in the car trade. I am a Citroen owner of some 21 years and an avid fan of the marque. I do all my own repairs and would encourage and help others to do the same.
<i>Payment methods may be difficult since I've never done this before. Any suggestions very welcome.</i>
The electrical section which runs to some 800 pages will probably cover 90% of all problems highlighted in this forum. The Hydraulics, suspension, brakes and steering run to over 200 pages. ABS is fully covered as is Hydractive I and II.
All models are covered in the manual including left and right hand drive. Even the Diravi is covered even though it was never fitted to RHD cars in this country (biggest disappointment, I miss it dearly). Series 2 models starting at rp 6383 are covered.
The manual covers all of the updates for the various trim and accessory options to date.
I realise copyright is an issue. If someone has an overriding desire to dob me in to the appropriate authorities, just let me know and I'll keep the manual to myself and you can pay the highway robbers for the priviledge of 'repairing' your beloved XM.
My motive in all of this is to help fellow XM owners keep their hearts desires on the road at a reasonable cost and to reduce the amount of rubbish spread about how things work. The electrical wiring diagrams alone should dispel most of the myths circulating on how certain parts of the XM should work.
Serious enquiries are invited to norrie@hirford.freeserve.co.uk I haven't worked out the payment side yet so bear with me.
If someone would like to act as an independent adjudicator on the quality of the manual I would be quite happy to send a copy of the manual to someone of high standing on this forum (eg Anders). They can verify the content and the quality of the manual to give others the confidence that I'm not a con artist.
The manual is in .pdf format and fully indexed. Adobe Acrobat reader is included on the CD for those who don't have it.
Now that I've done this for the XM I would be willing to repeat the exercise for other models by popular demand. A poll may be required to judge interest in each model. Maybe a moderator could advise of the best way to go about this? I don't know the features available on this forum's software.
The ultimate benefit would be obtained from having the entire manual available on the web. However the hosting space required is huge (645MB) any advice how this could be achieved at no cost would be welcomed.
Regards and best of luck
noz[;)]

Paulxmski · Post by **Paulxmski** » 22 Nov 2003, 04:56

Hi Noz,
Yes I would definitely buy the CD manual from you does it have details of the V6 engine in it since I've got 2 of them both with different sorts ofproblems. I think you've done us all a big favour with this!!
Paulxmski

noz · Post by **noz** » 22 Nov 2003, 14:38

Paulxmski,
Yes, it covers the ES9J4 V6 Petrol engine. There are approx 70 pages covering all aspects of the engine.
Glad to be of assistance.
Cheers
noz

cjlovett · Post by **cjlovett** » 23 Nov 2003, 04:50

Count me in. Why not ask for postal orders? Or cheques with delivery on clearance?

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 23 Nov 2003, 07:54

As regards payment.
I have used paypal for several things, it seems OK and I believe it has been bought out by Ebay.
www.paypal.co.uk

pbekkerh · Post by **pbekkerh** » 24 Nov 2003, 06:57

I would like a manual, but your mail address does not work.
Please mail me.
Poul B-H
pbekkerh@post6.tele.dk

pbekkerh · Post by **pbekkerh** » 24 Nov 2003, 07:12

mail is OK. I removed the last dot
Poul B-H

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 24 Nov 2003, 10:17

How about a trade [:D]
I'll send you a stack of Citroen Factory manuals on CD-ROM for the GS, CX and DS and you can send me a copy of the XM manual

seeya,
Shane L.
'Cit' homepage:
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 24 Nov 2003, 15:13

Is this copyright infringement and are you going to get sued by Citroen big style?
Citroen charges rather a lot of money for their workshop manuals and I can't see them being happy about you making cheaper versions at a profit...

noz · Post by **noz** » 25 Nov 2003, 00:10

Kowalski,
I understand the principle but have you tried to buy a manual from Citroen recently. Basically they don't want you repairing your car they just want you to take it to a franchised dealer and be charged a small mortgage for the pleasure or scrap it and buy another. I tried for about three months to buy an Xm manual from our local Citroen agent without success. I made an absolute pest of myself phoning once or twice per week to check on progress.
The dealer couldn't identify a part number, confirm if any manuals were in stock anywhere or obtain a manual.
If I'm willing to purchase the manual and Citroen cannot sell me it can this be breach of copyright?
The intent is not to make a profit. The intent is to distribute technical information to allow Citroen enthusiasts to maintain their cars and keep them on the road a bit longer than they would otherwise. The intent is to cover the hardware costs and my time only.
In a way you could view as being in Citroens interest. The longer the cars are kept running, the more spare parts they'll need and the more the Citroen marque will be seen on the roads.
But I sympathise with your view. So I have had a rethink. In actual fact it is the CD case which costs £2, the postage is £2, there's a £28 donation and the CD is free just like a sticker is free when you give a donation to charity.
cheers
noz
ps
if anyone from Citroen is reading this and has a problem, there's no need to call ou the lawyers. Please just e-mail me and I shall desist immediately.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 25 Nov 2003, 04:19

Hey Noz,
if you get in trouble, then I'm in deep sh!t .... I've sent out literly thousands of CD's of Citroen factory manuals, though admittadly I've made no $$$ out of it (usualy I send them out for about 5pounds inc postage).
This is the stuff I usualy send out:
CX:
Early CX Factory Shop Manual No #818 (with fuel injection supplements).
Citroen Demon --Advertising Pamphlet for CX2500 Gti Turbo I Series I
CXA Brochure (American spec CX’s).
CX Turbo Diesel data (not English).
Citroen CX “Injection Electronique” Not English
CX Factory Spare Parts Manual --Multi Lingual Format
Citroen CX 2500GTi Turbo and DTR Turbo Technical principles
Elektronische Regelsystemen Fuel injection in detail --No English
Citroen Hydraulics Course notes.
Late Factory Shop Manual. No # 58531
CX2200 Owners Manual
Green 'D'
Buying a ‘D’ in France
Oiling and repairing a ‘D’ chassis
Jaeger Clock repair (technical DIY instructions).
’71 Factory DS Parts List
Engine drawings/pictures
Fuel Systems
Carby
EFI sources
FI Training Drafts
‘D’ jetronic ECU reverse engineering diagrams.
Handbooks
DS21 EFI
DS23 EFI
Hyraulics
Regulator relocation
Pump Overhaul
Causes
C-matic (BVH) magic
Fluid Summary
Gearchange speed
Hydraulic course notes
Late ‘D’ Factory Shop Manual No # 814
Ligarex Straps
Oil Filter data.
Roadtests
Steering alignment tool
Red 'D'
Carters Stuff
Carby safety
DS air filter
DS fule tank filter
DS pivot with hub
Chassis repair and oiling
DS19 Factory Shop Manual
DS19 Factory Spare Parts Manual
DS History (very interesting)
Hydraulics
Regulator relocation
Pump Overhaul
Causes
BVH Magic
Fluid Summary
Gearchange Speed
Hydraulic Course Notes
ID19 Factory Shop Manual
ID19 Factory Spare Parts Manual
Ligarex
Road Tests
Service Bulletins
Slough Info
Traction Parts & factory shop manual
Traction:
2cv shop manual --(diagram half)
Traction Brochure
ID19 (early) manual
Light 15 book
Light 15 owners manual
Light 15 factory Spare Parts Manual
Light 15 Factory shop manual (years 1938 – 1950)
Various Road tests
GS:
Shop manuals
Spare Parts manual
I seriously doubt Citroen care in the slightest about cars that they no longer sell, and most servicing branches have no idea how to work on...
seeya,
Shane L.

noz · Post by **noz** » 27 Nov 2003, 01:27

thanks double chevron for your support. Clearly your glass is always half full !
regards
noz

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 27 Nov 2003, 22:58

I suppose if you asked Citroen if it was OK, and they said yes, you'd be free to distribute the manuals.
If they said no, however, it wouldn't be very clever because in effect you would have just told them that you were doing something that they wouldn't want you to be doing and where as you might have escaped their attention before, you certainly wouldn't afterwards.
Just a thought.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 28 Nov 2003, 02:19

I think copyright has a 10 year limit anyways hasn't it?
I can't speak for over there but I know over here I had to organise a community concert a few years back. The copyright was supposedly handled by a group of absolute dictater types who'd have your guts for garters if you played one note of any tune without notifying them. Stories were rife about inspectors going into shops & handing bills for royalties to shop keeper for playing a radio where the general public could hear it & so on, so as you can imagine I was being extremely careful to be sure all was kosher.
When I rang them, they didn't know what I was on about and referred me to some one else, who referred me to someone else who referred me to someone else & so it went on infinitum. Eventually, I found someone with a small remnant of brain tissue left who proceeded to advise me that the time limitation on copyright was 10 years and the last time anyone was sued for breach of it had nothing to do with playing the actual tune but for rewriting one song as another without giving credit to the original author.
I think you'll find that that where you would be vulnerable would be if you copied the manuals, removed any reference to them being the originals & claimed them as your own work. Possibly even a dodgy disclaimer that "the CD is being supplied as a guide to do a particular job & that it is the responsibility of the purchaser to destroy the CD upon completion of the job," could be enough to complicate matters enough for them to not bother pursuing it any further if theyw ere so inclined.
You'd find in any case it's not Citroen who chase copyright breaches but some sleepy Government instrumentality trying to justify their existence.
Alan S

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 28 Nov 2003, 16:29

Copyright lasts until 50 years after the death of the author (it might not be 50 years). If the copyright holder modifies a work the copyright is extended to 50 years from the death of either the original or modifying author.