New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

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WaldoMcBaldo
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New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by WaldoMcBaldo »

I have a few questions I was hoping some of you could clear up! I have the 1.9 TD LX model which I instantly fell in love with after taking her for a test drive.

1) This is my first diesel but I have what seems to be a 'misfire' on cold starts. I'd imagine I've got a dodgy glow plug as it feels as if it's not firing on all cylinders occasionally and it judders and spits white (not blue) smoke out of the back. It smells sweetish and I'd imagine it's unburnt diesel. My question is, how can I isolate which plug isn't warming without taking them all out? The car runs like a top when you drive off and there's no sign of the problem when the engine is warm.

2)How long should it take the suspension to go from service low to normal drive height? On cold start It's well over a minute from the stop light (on the dash) igniting before it settles at drive height. Seems a little slow to me? I have no history with the car but the rear spheres look fairly cruddy so I'd imagine they're due for replacement.

3) The brakes are terrifying. They stop me fine but seem to 'pulse'; you push the pedal, the brakes engage but then it feels like they let off again, then re-engage. Is this the accumulator sphere failing or is it just a Xantia thing, as I know it's all a common hydraulic circuit.

4) Rust patches on the back, bottom edge of the door, along the sills. Doesn't seem too severe and looks like it's been Waxoyled at some point. Best prevention/cure against further rust without cutting it out and welding a replacement?

5) As I said before the car has no service history so when the weather warms up I'll get it over our inspection pit (We live on a farm) and give it a thorough going over. Any specific Xantia problems to focus on beside the Oil/Air filter/Oil filter/Sphere/LHM/Brake/Plug changes?

Thanks in advance, I feel like I've bought something special and as I'm fairly mechanically inclined I'd like to try and keep her in good condition for a fair few years to come hopefully!
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Xaccers »

Welcome aboard.

1) not really, they often end up heating on their shaft rather than the tip. I take them out and test with jump leads.

2) the spheres provide ride quality and do not affect the height. Rusty ones aren't always a sign of old spheres. It could be you need to replace the LHM with hydroflush (hydrorin¢age) by Total from GSF car parts. Run it for about 1000 miles to clean the height controllers internally a bit and then replace with new LHM.

3) brakes could need bleeding as they are dead ends. Do the hydroflush and bleed.

5) make sure the linkages between the height correctors and anti roll bars are lubed and free moving. The front one should be OK due to the usual oil spray from TDs.
Heater matrix... With the age of the car it could be leaking so run the heater and sniff for a curry/cat pee smell. Its a dash out long job but not that difficult, just really long.
If it is a MK1 (separate grill and bonnet) then look into the blower relay mod, the headlight relay mod and the starter motor relay mod.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Welcome to the forum.

Do you know how many spheres she has? It will be at least 5, could be 6. There will be one per strut, which serves as the spring and shock absorber on a normal car (but does a much better job). Then there is the accumulator sphere, mounted low down on the front of the engine, connected to the regulator. If there is a sixth sphere, it will be mounted on the rear sub frame, somewhat obscured by the spare wheel. These two spheres effectively do the same job, holding a pressure reserve in case of a pressure failure. The accumulator sphere also helps to smooth out the pressure spikes generated by the LHM pump. One VERY important test is to listen (while the engine is running) for a clicking noise from the accumulator/regulator assembly. If it is less then 30 seconds then the sphere has low pressure, and needs to be re-gassed or replaced. The only way to test the rear sphere (known as the anti-sink sphere) is to connect it to a pressure tester. Most people replace the accumulator and anti-sink spheres at the same time.

This is a very good guide on spheres, etc.,

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 22&t=24595" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you need a sphere removal tool, look in Xacs' signature for the DIY sphere removal tool. I have made one, and it works well.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Jaf »

Hello. I knew my front accumulator sphere was dead when with the engine stopped the brakes didn't work at all, scary. Also give the lhm filters a clean, mine were black. I'd do a cam belt change too as you've no history, it's an interference engine.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Xaccers »

Remember when you do the cambelt to replace the water pump too. They often don't like the disruption and start leaking so you end up having to basically do the cambelt job again to replace the pump, so best to do both together.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Old-Guy »

Also when you do the cambelt, check the state of the cambelt tensioners, if there's any play in the tensioner bearings (or they're not as smooth as silk) replace them - otherwise you'll have to do the whole job all over again with another new belt.

While you're at it, check the auxiliary drive belt and tensioner - if it goes, no hydraulic power.....

I've written guides based on my own experience (cambelt twice, heater relay mod, spheres etc.), but as my website is down at the moment, if you want any of them (as PDFs), PM me with an e-mail address.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by citroenxm »

Never seen a faulty xud tensioners even at 250k made of proper stuff.. not the plastic rubbish. That'snot to say change them Iif you feel the need but I never have. I do on the newer hdi with plastic rubbish tensioners though.

car is an lx so it has just the corner strut spheres for ride and engine accumulator sphere.

more important is what year is the Lx. Is she a later series two then she might have abs. Lx cars had abs as an option but fitted as standard from 1998.

Use a syringe and draw out some of the fluid in the tank. observe the colour and report back.

any other colour then green it needs a complete flush as advised by xac above.. and possibly the filters cleaned. It's not a hard job to do at all!
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Post by Eddie Nuff »

I had a 1.9TD, ran it to 292k before the car dropped to pieces around the engine. All the engine really needs is fresh oil, every six months in my case, and they'll run forever.

The year and maybe a couple of pics would make a it easier to decipher any problems.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by WaldoMcBaldo »

Thanks very much for the replies guys!

As for the year, she's a 1996 model. Quite good condition considering her age. The inside is near immaculate apart from the slightly grotty seats and the smoke smell (The steam cleaner will sort that out when the weather warms up!)

http://postimg.org/image/uk05mk6ud

http://postimg.org/image/dqg02wkvv/

Those spotlights are great too. Really turn the night into day when you flick your beams on! :mrgreen:

I managed to grab a PDF of the Haynes manual and I'm going to check the glow plugs when I next get a day off, as well as taking a sample of the LHM fluid. As for the accumulator sphere I can't hear any ticking at all over the engine noise. Is it distinctive or something I need to really listen out for? The suspension is still slow in rising, but the brakes have sorted themselves out and become a little less terrifying. I was told the car was garaged for about 6 months prior to me buying it so maybe everything just needed to work itself back in. Cambelt is on the list due to lack of service history, I'll get it done after my insurance and tax renewal in March.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by citroenxm »

WOW Look at the engine bay!! Thats bloody Tidy!

As I thought, NO ABS, so if she has stood possibly uneven Discs on that..

As for the ticking, you can also hear it ticking a LOT if its gonna do it when you put it on TOP setting. With her running put her on top setting, and listen out, you will hear it when it happens.

Theres ALSO another test you can do.. With the car in NORMAL height position. Start the car and wait for the STOP lights to go out.. Open the door and put one leg out the door. Stop the engine and STRAIGHT away move the height lever to the back (TOP setting).. if theres any reserve in the accumilator, the car will move up a bit till the reserve pressure is exhausted. If there NO movment at alll it be safe to say it needs changing.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by WaldoMcBaldo »

Well I've finally had some time to go over the car and start to work on some of the problems.

Firstly the brakes are definitely not warped disks, it's far too irregular and terrifying for it to be that (Trust me, I've had bikes with warped disks), so that means it's gonna be related to the hydraulic system. This brings me to my next point:

The LHM fluid is a lovely 70s smokestain yellow, which means I'll be buying some hydroflush as soon as money allows and doing a complete system flush. According to my Haynes it says you drain the fluid from the tank and pipe, take the tank off, clean the filters, put everything back together and re-fill with the flush. It doesn't mention bleeding (Which surprised me) but I'm assuming I'll have to bleed from the calipers (Unless there's other bleed points I don't know about)

I had another problem regarding an intermittent battery light which I traced down to being the positive terminal loosely attached to the battery. On attempting to tighten it up it decided to snap. Great. So I've put two brand new terminals on the cables and now you barely have to turn the key to start it.

I'll check the glow plug issue tomorrow as I've run out of time now (Getting dark) and I had a listen for the accumulator ticking when the car is in service high. It was so loud I could hear it from within the cabin, however the intervals are what they should be (Roughly).

I can also confirm it's a non-ABS model due to nearly smashing it into the back of some Alfa Romeo that decided to stop with no prior warning from 50 mph, when he decided he wanted to turn right. This has also shown me that the front tyres are garbage and will be changed with much haste (Again, hopefully tomorrow) to some nearly new 195/65/R15s from my old crashed Honda Accord

I also doubt that the dealership has been entirely honest with me (big surprise) as it came with a brand new years MOT. So far I've found 3 points on the car that are an MOT instafail (Front tyres at wear limit, spare tyre is utterly bald and dry rotted, couple of dead bulbs behind the dash for warning lights) and some that would at least come up as an advisory (brakes). However I also found out that this has been someone's pride and joy for a number of years due to it being on private plates before I took it and finding some old service paperwork buried in the car. All I can say is I'm glad I can turn a spanner!
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by citroenxm »

I had a steering wheel "Shake" when braking on mine, it turned out to be track rod ends.

Do you feel the judder through the pedal? or steering wheel?
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by Mandrake »

Is the spare tyre even checked for an MOT ?

Mine is very difficult to get out (rusty spare wheel tray and a tow bar mounting bolt that fouls the tray swinging down) so I strongly doubt any attempt was made to remove my spare wheel for inspection at the last MOT. :lol:

As for your brakes pulsing, I would replace the accumulator sphere ASAP for safety reasons - it's not a difficult job and there's no reason to wait until the oil is changed as the old dirty oil won't hurt the new accumulator sphere.

After that bleed the front and rear brakes and I bet the brakes will be totally transformed.

If you're new to Xantia's the brake bleeding process is different to normal brake systems, you don't pump the pedal but rather leave the engine running and hold the pedal down while the bleed nipple is opened. (I use a length of 2x4 wedged between the seat and the brake pedal :) ) For the rear brakes to bleed the suspension should be set to maximum height and the opposite rear wheel left on the ground carrying weight otherwise there won't be any brake pressure.

For more detailed procedures there is plenty of info elsewhere on the forum.
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by WaldoMcBaldo »

citroenxm wrote:I had a steering wheel "Shake" when braking on mine, it turned out to be track rod ends.

Do you feel the judder through the pedal? or steering wheel?
No shake or judder, just an intermittent pulsing.
Mandrake wrote:Is the spare tyre even checked for an MOT ?

Mine is very difficult to get out (rusty spare wheel tray and a tow bar mounting bolt that fouls the tray swinging down) so I strongly doubt any attempt was made to remove my spare wheel for inspection at the last MOT. :lol:

As for your brakes pulsing, I would replace the accumulator sphere ASAP for safety reasons - it's not a difficult job and there's no reason to wait until the oil is changed as the old dirty oil won't hurt the new accumulator sphere.

After that bleed the front and rear brakes and I bet the brakes will be totally transformed.

If you're new to Xantia's the brake bleeding process is different to normal brake systems, you don't pump the pedal but rather leave the engine running and hold the pedal down while the bleed nipple is opened. (I use a length of 2x4 wedged between the seat and the brake pedal :) ) For the rear brakes to bleed the suspension should be set to maximum height and one rear wheel left on the ground carrying weight otherwise there won't be any brake pressure.

For more detailed procedures there is plenty of info elsewhere on the forum.
If a spare is present it has to conform to the same regulations that mounted tyres do, if it's not present it's not checked. Thanks for the info on the bleed it'll make my job a lot easier. I'll also replace the sphere as it's probably best due to me not knowing when it was last done. Do I have to bleed after a sphere replacement?
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Re: New Xantia Owner With a few Questions

Post by lexi »

Spare wheel is checked if it is there. If you have a dodgy spare then leave it off for MOT or get a legal one.
The TD is a great old slugger. Will need a lot of spannering and bits as any 17 yr old car would.
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