Cold starts etc..

[xantiagreen]

Mk2 Xantia 110 HDI hatchback 2001

Even before today The xantia takes 3-4 seconds before it fires up, but its always a bit slow in cranking once fired up if I try again after 30 mins or so it starts first time and cranks over alot quicker. I had the leads to the battery cleaned and chopped where they had become green and burnt and would smoke at times when car was running. I have tested the battery in the evening after being stood for almost 22 hours only used for 10 minutes within the 22 hours and battery stood at 12.6v. When running it showed 14.4v and when everything was on that's front/rear fogs, hazards, main beam, rear demister, stereo, heater on full and air-con for 20 seconds it showed 13.3v.

Invoice shows work carried out 05/12/2011 " Investigate cold start fault, remove battery and test glow plug relay, test power and earth supply feeds to relay. Found no earth supply to relay from engine ECU. Fit wire to manually earth switch, fit push button switch and test functions. Then the next day they removed the glow plugs and bench test, found one plug inoperable and the others not working correctly, replace and re-test cost of each plug £7.56.
Then the day after they change the battery at £85.15.
How long do I need to hold the button in for to warm up the plugs, because I don't want to burn the relay or wire out if I keep it pressed.

Today was a frosty morning I pressed the glow plug heater button for about 5 seconds and it took me around 13 seconds to start the car, I cranked it on the first attempt without letting go and before it started around the 7-8 second mark the speedo and rev counter needles spun the whole way round and to rest again twice, once it started all lights went out as normal and off I trundled.

Also I checked how many mpg I was getting and it seems its 33-35mpg that is all town driving never get above 40, Is that what I should be expecting. I also found out the embarrassing way that you can't pull away from the traffic lights when you're getting close to them in second gear at even 10mph.

[RichardW]

The plugs on these heat up very fast, unless it's really cold - less than a second at current temps, and it should start without anyway - I very much doubt this is an issue with the glowplugs. Given that the dials are dancing and cranking speed is down, then you have a power supply problem - I'd recheck the leads at the battery for running hot, and the earth from the engine. If these check out OK, then measure the voltage at the battery whilst the engine is being cranked. If that checks out OK, then I would suspect the starter motor.

[Peter.N.]

I would also suspect you need a new starter motor, these engines do need to turn over fast to start well. What I have done in the past is to remove the motor and take the front section off and lubricate the reduction gear, that may well increase the speed significantly.

Peter

[Xantidote]

I had the leads to the battery cleaned and chopped where they had become green and burnt and would smoke at times when car was running

Sounds as though you were very close to an electrical disaster.

As Richard says, check the battery leads for warmth after the engine fires up. Prior to next cold start, you could temporarily fix a jump lead from the battery earth terminal to a good point on the engine/gearbox, and see if that improves the start-up. This would tell you if it's the earthing that's causing a problem. Could be that the electrical work done Dec 2011 didn't restore to "as new" condition, and needs revisiting.

The voltages you quote suggest the alternator is producing a good charge. As Richard says, dancing dial needles suggests a supply (or earth) problem.

[xantiagreen]

The plugs on these heat up very fast, unless it's really cold - less than a second at current temps, and it should start without anyway - I very much doubt this is an issue with the glowplugs. Given that the dials are dancing and cranking speed is down, then you have a power supply problem - I'd recheck the leads at the battery for running hot, and the earth from the engine. If these check out OK, then measure the voltage at the battery whilst the engine is being cranked. If that checks out OK, then I would suspect the starter motor.

I also don't seem to have the glow plug light that should come on the dash, I rang the mechanic that carried out the work in 2011 and he stated that there was no earth to the glowplug relay possible break in wiring or ecu fault, so he earthed to relay and I was told to press the button when needed for 10-15 seconds dependant on outside temp and that would start the manual heat cycle, but this morning I kept it pressed for 10 seconds and still the same as day before. I will try the Jump cables from earth to engine bay area (wheres the best place to attach when you're looking at the engine bay area).

Thanks

[Old-Guy]

You may find some basic data on battery voltages helpful:
Unless your digital voltmeter is a very expensive (£100+) calibrated job, is unlikely to be more accurate than ±0.05V on the 20V DC range and may well be worse than ±0.1V!
A few minutes after starting, the alternator should be producing 14.4V (on the battery posts) unless the battery is very big and flat.
A battery that has just had a good charge, should show around 13.8V when you turn the engine off, this voltage will drop quite quickly at first, then ever more slowly. If left disconnected overnight (so that the alarm, radio Hydractive ECU etc. can't deplete the battery) a fully charged and 'settled' battery should show around 12.7V.
This is no measure of the battery's capacity or the cranking current that it can produce, both of which will drop with age and abuse.
A cold engine is more reluctant to start for two reasons, the increased drag of cold oil means it cranks more slowly and the cold engine (despite good glowplugs) turning more slowly means that combustion air cools quickly so the effective compression ratio is lower; all of which make the fuel less likely to ignite.

[demag]

I have got into the habit of depressing the clutch when turning the key.

Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[electronmirror]

The OP reports fuel consumption of 33-35 mpg. Notwithstanding the issue with glowplug relay wiring I can't help feeling something else must be wrong to achieve that consumption figure unless in the habit of red lining all the time at the traffic light grand prix . I've never got less than 43 mpg in heavy town traffic even in winter. I suggest it needs a Lexia diagnosis pronto.

I've only once seen the glow plug light come on in the last 11 years but that was in ambient temperature of -10c and then only for a second.

As others have suggested the battery voltages for charging and maximum load seem reasonable. I agree with RichardW either the cables from the battery or starter motor. When I had 'dancing instrument needles' a few years ago it turned out to be the battery on its last legs but I note your battery is fairly new.

[xantiagreen]

The OP reports fuel consumption of 33-35 mpg. Notwithstanding the issue with glowplug relay wiring I can't help feeling something else must be wrong to achieve that consumption figure unless in the habit of red lining all the time at the traffic light grand prix . I've never got less than 43 mpg in heavy town traffic even in winter. I suggest it needs a Lexia diagnosis pronto.

I've only once seen the glow plug light come on in the last 11 years but that was in ambient temperature of -10c and then only for a second.

As others have suggested the battery voltages for charging and maximum load seem reasonable. I agree with RichardW either the cables from the battery or starter motor. When I had 'dancing instrument needles' a few years ago it turned out to be the battery on its last legs but I note your battery is fairly new.

Does it have to be Lexia diagnostic, citroen specialist that I go to says he has one that is powerful enough to read xantia. Whats the chances it will miss the important fault codes.