1.6 HDi Turbo change

[RichardW]

As you may have spotted in this thread: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 5&start=45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; our 1.6 HDi C4 Picasso turbo failed this week. Current status is that the turbo is off and away for rebuild, so some thoughts and observations on the job here.... might add some photos tomorrow of the inside of the sump when I get it off!

First off, you need to remove the radiator - whilst you can fight with the bolts in the heat shield and the upper pipe on the DPF, you will find after you have done this, there is not enough room to get the heat shield out with the rad in, so remove it at the start and make life easier for yourself! Pipes to the DPF are 19mm. Once you've got the top pipe off, access is not too bad to the heat shield bolt next to the AC comp, which is all but invisible. The DPF uses one of those infernal spring clips at each end - the less said about those the better, I only got the top one to relent by swinging the DPF back and forwards whilst belting it. If anyone knows a fool proof way to get these undone, I'd like to hear it I removed the air divert valve at the top of the intercooler - but broke the one remaining (of three) mounting studs - how is it supposed to come off? You need an 'E' spline socket to get one of the turbo mountings off (why???? why not just a std hex??).

There is no evidence of obstruction in the oil feed or return pipe, so I suspect the filter has blocked up.

Tomorrow is sump off, and clean out the oil pick up.

If anyone knows how to bleed the cooling system on one these, I'd like to know, can't see any bleed screws or tubes....??

Hired a car for the week to make life easier - ended up with a Fiat 500. Let's just say I won't be rushing out to buy one

[cc101]

Little tip for you when refitting the turbo, connect it to the exhaust using the clamp BEFORE you bolt the turbo on, you'll never get it to seal properly and you'll end up having black soot around the clamp.

[citroenxm]

That's interesting Richard. . My sisters c4 blew it's turbo this week. I have seen a brand new turbo cartridge on ebay for about £123 quid or so that looks to fit straight into the turbo house. Not sure what else it entails though. I'm likely to go that route.

[RichardW]

Walk in the park for you Paul....

A cartridge is probably OK, if the VNT mech is OK - as long as it is balanced.

Stripped the sump off today - there was no sludge to speak of in the bottom of the sump, but there are some bits in the strainer in the oil pick up - think I will replace that, as it's only £15. Turbo guy took one look at the turbo and pointed out that as there was oil in the inlet side, the breather is probably broken as well, and the intercooler full of oil. Was going to remove the intercooler anyway - took it off today stood it upside down and a good bit had run out in an hour or so. It has always been oily around the breather - I had to tighten up the jubilees on the divert valve to stop it leaking oil on the alternator - suggesting he is right about the breather! New breather / rocker cover is £75, but think I will replace that too. Removed it today, and that revealed quite a bit of blowby on No 3 injector hiding down the back, so that will need doing as well (by someone else, that is beyond me!).

Getting the sump off was interesting. First off I thought I needed to remove the section of exhaust under the engine, so slacked off the clamp above the subframe (just) but would it let go? Would it heck. Feeling dejected thought I would see if the sump would come off with the pipe on. Got all the bolts out, but sump stuck fast (sealed with silicone). Pryed at the back corner, but it wasn't for letting go. Then noticed that the two studs had splines on the end - applied one of the new sockets I bought to get the turbo off (just as well I bought a rack!) and there was a bit of a funny noise, was thinking it was just pulling the sealant around the stud, but then the whole lot was loose. Turns out there is a flange on the stud behind the sump, and undoing it jacks the sump off. Neat. And there's plenty of room to get it past the exhaust. Tightened the exhaust clamp back up with a sigh of relief!

Having seen little or no sludge or carbon particles anywhere - I would urge anyone with a 1.6 HDi to strip off the DPF and remove the turbo oil feel pipe and get the damned filter out ASAP!!! Was going to do mine later in the summer, but events have overtaken me

[citroenxm]

Richard, and others too..

Ill be dooing this job soon, HOWEVER, we have bought a Turbo "Cartridge" unit, that fits into the exsisting houses on the inlet and exhaust sides. Hoping the job wont be too hard, but I too will be stripping off the oil sump to check the oil pick up, take the filter out and hope then for the best. The turbo cartridges are also Balanced ready to fit too...

Ill do a seperate full blog on it, as these 1.6 engines are now filling the fields, and spares ads too..

[RichardW]

There's a filter in the bottom of the oil pick - ours had some crud on it, so I have opted to fit a new one - surprisingly only £15 at the dealers! Imagine it would be OK if you backflush it well with petrol or something though. Make sure you get the filter out of the end of banjo bolt, and flush the oil pipe out well - the guy rebuilding our turbo was insistent a new pipe was fitted as part of the warranty, but then he produced one he had under the bench, which he sold me for £20, so that's going on too. Mandrake found the bleeding procedure for the coolant - there are apparently 2 bleed screws, one on the stat housing and the other on the heater feed, accessible once the air filter inlet hose is removed.

[citroenxm]

Yea, I found the coolant bleeders...

Im gonna take the feed pipe off of course, and get the sump off.. and make sure its ALL ok in there.

[uncle buck]

You want to alter the sump drain bolt recess while you have the sump off.

IN THIS THREAD (2nd post from the bottom) Axa pushed the sump bolt recess down so it sticks downwards out of the sump instead of upwards into the sump. This will allow removal of all the old oil during an oil change and not leave a 1/2 inch depth of oil still in there!

Cheers.

[RichardW]

Here's the villain of the piece - the filter from the oil feed pipe. Against a 1p coin to show just how small it is. There was some crud on the inlet side.



Sump now back on, and intercooler refitted, and new breather / rocker cover fitted. Picking up the turbo tomorrow then get it back together.

Paul - the bolts on the oil pick up are captive, and the ones that came with the new pick up had some thread lock on them - so probably worth using some if you chose not to fit new.

[astramanmazdaman]

http://supremeautosupplies.co.uk/assets ... issues.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have a look at this.We have to do this type of cleaning each time we replace a turbo, Although we only use one turbo agent for PSA engines the engine has got to be virtually stripped and cleaned which is a time consuming and costly exercise.WE ONLY FIT BRAND NEW TURBOS.in the past customers have supplied rebuilt ones from e-bay and other re manufacturers.most are down on boost ALL have failed 8 months or so later with shaft problems and who got the blame ?? All the new turbos fitted are still going strong with the owners being read the riot act on oil changes. all the major manufacturers say these turbos cannot be rebuilt older types yes but newer variable geometry tubos tend to damage the intake where the compressor sits and the actuators are worn so a "new" core will have excessive clearance and the blades may well have been trimmed off where they hit the intake hence lower boost and delay shown by only getting full boost when the engine is revving like the clappers.
Over the last six months we have seen only one citroen turbo but the number of fiestas is going up..... maybe the cost of repair is now uneconomical. One trader told us there seem to be a lot of small psa powered cars going through the auctions.he now steers clear as he has been burnt three or four times.

[Lighty]

We find a lot of issues with boost problems, this seems to be caused by the variable vanes sticking, good way to test is to "push" the actuator rod, and make sure it springs straight back up, by no means a proper test, but one we did yesterday took about 3 seconds to return.
Running with a blocked dpf seems to cause this .

[RichardW]

The weather finally relented (a bit!) this afternoon, and I got it back together. Seems to be running OK, has a lot more urge low down, we had commented that it seemed a bit flat at low revs recently, so perhaps that was the precursor to it failing. Had the clear the faults as it was a bit upset about me cranking it with the crank position sensor disconnected, and before I had refitted the air divert valve

Purging the cooling system is easy if you put the lid on the tank, and then blow down the small vent pipe from the rad

[citroenxm]

Apparently the difference between the 1.6 HDi 110 and 92 bhp is litterally the Turbo!

Both engines have intercoolers, but one has a varible geomerty turbo (110) and the other has a normal Turbo (92). Lucky my sisters is a 92, so nervious from what Ive read, I will be, but hope we can pull it off..

[RichardW]

Ah, 90 = no DPF, so that makes life easier Paul! service.citroen still shows a vac actuator on the turbo on the 90, so it must be variable somehow - perhaps just a waste gate boost controller. Looks to be in a better position (it was the actuator on our turbo - Garrett - which prevented the heat shield being removed with the rad in place). Only appears to be one type of turbo on those (there are 2, Garrett and Mitsubishi, on the 110), for a laugh, service.citroen says:

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00000375Q2 TURBO NEW 645.00 GBP 645.00 GBP 774.00 GBP 774.00 GBP 774.00 GBP 774.00 GBP

00000375Q3 TURBO EXCHANGE 461.53 GBP 461.53 GBP 553.84 GBP 553.84 GBP 553.84 GBP 553.84 GBP

[Mandrake]

The weather finally relented (a bit!) this afternoon, and I got it back together. Seems to be running OK, has a lot more urge low down, we had commented that it seemed a bit flat at low revs recently, so perhaps that was the precursor to it failing. Had the clear the faults as it was a bit upset about me cranking it with the crank position sensor disconnected, and before I had refitted the air divert valve

Purging the cooling system is easy if you put the lid on the tank, and then blow down the small vent pipe from the rad

Glad to hear that the turbo is back on and running. Lets hope it holds and that the oil ways aren't too dirty elsewhere in the engine to cause a repeat.