Central locking not locking rear doors

[sparksie]

Hi all

I'm new to Citroens, having just bough my first one, a 2000 Xantia 1.9Td.
I have a couple of issues that don't seem to have been covered here already.
The first, and most frustrating, is the central locking. It opens all doors, when either front door is opened with the key, but doesn't lock either rear door, when the fronts are locked.
The actuators can be heard moving and the lock buttons become free, allowing the doors to be manually locked, but there's no hint of movement in the mechanism.
Also, probably not related, but in a similar vein, the nsf door can not be opened from inside. The handle can be felt picking up the linkage, but it's very loose compared to the other doors. The only way for the passenger to open the door is to wind down the window and use the outside handle. Hardly ideal, especially in winter!
I've searched and not found anything about this. Anybody had this issue, or know what the trouble is?
Cheers

Sparksie

[sparksie]

Ok
Having loaned out my usual car to a customer, I ended up using the Cit today.
SWMBO was NOT AMUSED at having to open a window to get out of the car.
As a result, while she went shopping, I had a fun filled hour in a cold, wet, windy car park, with only a very basic set of tools, figuring out how to dismantle the door card! Luckily I had a couple of slot screwdrivers that were the right size to work in the three different sizes of Torx screws holding it all together.
By the time I got it all apart enough to see what was going on, light was becoming scarce, so I resorted to a bodge.
The rod from the interior handle was nearly 1/2" too long. I presume there is an adjustment at one or other end of this, but I couldn't see it. With a little judicious bending, I found I was able to take up the slack in the rod enabling the interior handle to release the catch.
Putting it all back together went smoothly enough, until I came to refit the lock button, by which time it was properly dark and SWMBO was standing watching me and looking likely to add thunder to the already nasty weather.
I got it wrong (too high) several times, before by sheer luck getting it right using a borrowed Zippo for light!
Thankfully, after a stony silence all the way home, the door obliged and opened at the first asking.
So far, she hasn't noticed the car's ability to self destruct on take-off, nor the refusal to lock the rear doors, so it's now regarded as acceptable, in the short term.
Will have to fix the back doors before she goes anywhere alone in it, though...
More oddities are starting to appear, too, so I feel a workshop day coming on!
This is what motoring used to be like back in the '80s, when all I could afford were ancient Fiats and Alfa Romeos.
I never had a failure to proceed, but stupid things falling off was commonplace!
More as it happens...

sparksie

[sparksie]

Hi guys

It seems I'm the only person interested in rear door locks, or perhaps I have a new and unique problem.
In any case, there's nobody offering any help, which is a surprise. I've been a member of various motoring forums over the years, all of which were mines of information.
I spent some time checking the locks out, today. If you're tackling this, the easy way is to first remove the door card, followed by the outer handle, which is held by a single bolt inside the door. This gives a nice large opening on the outside of the door, through which you can reach to disconnect the linkages abd the wiring plug. Then remove the rear window guide channel, held at the bottom by a single torx bolt.
Now take out the three countersunk Torx bolts holding the lock, while supporting it inside the door. Remove it from the inside. It's too big (just!) to come out through the handle aperture.
Alas, for most people, this is going to be as much as can be done, as the lock and solenoid are a unit, riveted together and cannot be separated without a certain amount of destruction. The problem is inside the unit, where the solenoid has become disengaged from the locking mechanism.
I'm not going to dismantle this until a replacement is available, as I suspect it's going to be irreparable.
To quote all the best manuals, refitting is a reversal of the removal procedure.
Something that might be worth considering, is to cobble on a standalone solenoid, from an aftermarket central locking kit.
Depending on the cost of a working lock, I may check this out, unless somebody knows why not???

sparksie

[Hell Razor5543]

I would be inclined to pour in some thin oil (like sewing machine oil) to see if that gets the locks working. Don't use WD40, as it is not really a lubricant.

This is compatible, but I don't know what you think about the price;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-913744-Ci ... 43b8a0be86" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The other option is this guy;

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =7&t=47074" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have bought bits from him in the past, will continue to do so (I have already requested other bits from him), and he knows what he is talking about.

[sparksie]

Hi

Thanks for the reply.
Oil won't repair something that's come adrift, alas! Replacement is probably going to be the only option.
The locks are working fine, as are the solenoids. the trouble is they are no longer connected to each other, inside.
The ebay item is exactly what I need, but for a car that cost E500 (about £300, I guess), paying £110 plus international carriage just for parts to make the central locking work would be daft!
I'll check the breakers and I'll look at the aftermarket options.
I may be able to cobble something together from a German car. I seem to remember a BMW having a separate solenoid that pushed/pulled the same rod as the button on the door!
There's plenty of room in the Xantia door, so I may be able to mount one of those in there. If I can make it fit, I'll have no problem making it work!
So far I'm getting away with it not working, by locking them manually, but the affection I'm starting to feel for the car is not mirrored in my better half, who has no patience at all for cars not doing what they should, given my profession
If she has to climb in and out locking doors before leaving the car, any good feelings I have towards it will vanish in a puff of smoke!
Let's see what happens in the coming week.
If I find an economic solution I'll post about it!

sparksie

[miked]

Ok
Putting it all back together went smoothly enough, until I came to refit the lock button, by which time it was properly dark and SWMBO was standing watching me and looking likely to add thunder to the already nasty weather.
I got it wrong (too high) several times, before by sheer luck getting it right using a borrowed Zippo for light!
sparksie

Reading that brought back memories. It's over 10 years since I had an early ('94 reg) Xantia but I remember having the same struggle, which I too seem to remember was solved at the time by me trying until I got lucky. I also remember some time after that reading the easy method on this site so I did a search. Never had the chance to try it myself but for future reference http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 4&p=156941

I don't remember reading anything about internal solenoid links breaking though, so not a common problem I would guess.

Edit: And by the way, welcome to the forum (Just noticed you are new here).

[sparksie]

Hi

Yes, that would be typical of my luck, getting two that failed in the same, previously unheard of, fashion!
Thanks for the tip about the lock button. It's exactly the procedure I came up with for the two rear doors, but won't work on the nsf door, because the top of the clip has a hole in it, large enough to accommodate the rod, so it doesn't get pushed into the engaged position when you push the button down!
I don't know how it eventually worked, because I was working in the dark and getting very frustrated with it, when it eventually happened. Were it not for the kind intervention of a passer-by with a wind-proof cigarette lighter (astonishing things, by the way), I might very well have flung it away and tried to find one in a scrappy instead. As it was, I had to pretend to be calm and unruffled, to avoid appearing a total muppet!
Had no time to play with it today, so no update yet.
Hoping to have a stroll around the breaker's yard on Saturday, to see what other models might have something I can adapt to fit.
You never know, there might even be a Xantia, which by the sound of things, would be practically guaranteed to have working locks!
One can always dream...

sparksie

[Hell Razor5543]

The lock button is still available from Citroen (well, it was 6 months ago), and, IIRC, costs under £6. Make sure to get one for the front door, as the rear door one is narrower. The instructions in the other post works.

[sparksie]

Well, nice to know they can still be got, but now that it's back on and the door is doing what it should, I'm sorta hoping I won't have to go back in there!
Now the back doors are a different story.
I'll be in and out of there a few times before I get them working, I reckon. Lots of opportunities to break one, or both!
Might order up one, as a form of insurance, I suppose...
Going to have to drive it again, most of tomorrow. Let's see what surprises that throws at me...

sparksie

[citroenxm]

Are you saying the locks aren't working electrically? Have you checked the wires between the door and b pillar??

I'd bet you there's broken wires in there which is causing your problem.. They do break easily. Actually door lock failure is rare.. so rare I have never sold any rear door locks I do have plenty of working ones..

as for the front door opening rod. That actually slides into a pinch type clip which a t 20 torx screw poches the rod near the internal handle...

[sparksie]

Hi

Ehhh, no! I'm saying (did say, in fact!) the solenoids can be heard to work, but the mechanism doesn't move.
There is a mechanical disconnection between the solenoid (the electrical part of the lock) and the locking mechanism.
They open perfectly, but can't be locked manually when opened electrically, due to the actuator (the business end of the solenoid) being in the way of the latch.
If you lock the car, the solenoids move to the locked position, failing to bring the mechanism with them, but leaving the way clear for them to be locked manually.
As I also explained, I've had them both out for examination and they cannot be opened sufficiently to repair them, without damage, potentially leaving me with a door that can't be closed.
For most, the only option would be to replace them both, but in the spirit of other forums I've been a member of, I thought a cheaper option should be sought and the rest of the members told about it, if successful.
I was planning to have a stroll around the breakers yard tomorrow, looking for suitable donors to make the doors behave using a separate solenoid, but it seems I'm not going to have time now. They don't let me in on Sundays any more, so it'll have to be sometime next week, unless something changes.
On the subject of wiring, there is a problem with the speaker wiring to the nsr door. When the problem is present, none of the speakers on the left work. When it's not present, all work. This suggests it's a "short" rather than an "open". With some modern audio equipment, this could burn out the output stage of the amplifier, so investigate any audio anomalies promptly.
This kind of fault is especially prevalent with modern thin-wall cabling, which is much less flexible and less tolerant of chafing than old fashioned cables.
I'll be checking all the cables in the bellows beside the hinges, next time I have the doors apart. If a powered wire were to get shorted, the best possible outcome would be a blown fuse. If the short were to the speaker wire, which has a much lower current carrying capacity, rather than the chassis, the probable outcome would be a burned loom, or maybe even a toasted car!
Don't ignore faults associated with door wiring.

sparksie

[citroenxm]

Ah sorry for my misunderstanding..do you not want another pair of standard original ones that you can swap like for like?

Is it not a problem with the child lock somehow? I know the c5 off side rear door locks messes up if thé child lock is used often

[sparksie]

Childlock is possible, but unlikely.
That works by preventing the inside handle from releasing the catch.
It doesn't/shouldn't interfere with the locking/unlocking function.
TBH I don't really care exactly how I get it working, as long as it's reliable and doesn't add another 25% to the cost of the car!!!
If there happens to be a Xantia in the breakers, I'll whip its' locks, for sure. In the real world, that's a bit unlikely!
Are you offering a pair of known good locks for sale?
If so, at what cost, bearing in mind international post?

sparksie

[addo]

I had a C3 recently that stripped the plastic teeth on the internal actuating rods in the door locks. All four were damaged and I don't know the similarity with any other locks to be sure of pillaging just the broken bits.

When it happened, you could hear the motors whirring but there was no result.

[sparksie]

Hi

Thanks for that. Judging by the noises they make, I think these are more like solenoids than motors. They go "Thunk", not "whirr".
In any case, they can only be opened by destructive means, which I'm not prepared to do unless and until I have a suitable replacement to put back in.
My days of driving around with doors held shut by bungee cords are behind me

sparksie