noise on front wheels/suspension

[musicman]

I will try to be to the point, I am a 70 yr oldie and careful driver, in the summer i purchased a one owner Ex Mobility C4 VTR HDi auto with 26,000+ on the clock. When i eventually received the MOT cert it had advisory NSF and OSF steering rack ends worn. i returned the car and had them replaced the car had done 30,000 by then, the mechanic let me watch the job being carried out. I have only done a few hundred miles since, when I reverse off my drive especially on lock I have a noise from the front wheels or suspension, also driving over bumps although the car seems ok on decent surface roads, i am about to replace the front tyres as they are worn on the outsides, The gear change is smooth and I have never used the paddles to change gear. so presume its not a drive problem? Can anybody please help a pensioner going greyer by the minute
many thanks

[myglaren]

Usually the drop links.

Have to say that I am very blasé about speed bumps and the like and have only had one drop link replaced on two C5s in eight years. They do seem to be a weakness on lots of cars though.

[citronut]

can you elaborate on the type of noise, with your user name i would think you can
maybe a knocking or clack clack clack??????

were are you located

[Peter.N.]

If your tyres are worn on the outside edges your tracking needs adjusting, it will be towing in to much. Get it done when you fit the new tyres or they will wear rapidly.

Peter

[musicman]

Thanks for that Peter, the outer edges do seem to have worn since the track rod ends were replaced, the mechanic did count the amount of turns when he replaced them. the MOT is due in February so I will replace the tyres and get it tracked

[Peter.N.]

Rarely are the replacement track rod ends exactly the same length as the originals - guess how I know!

Peter

[citronut]

maybe previous owner had had the tracking adjusted whilst it had the play in the inner rack joints,

and now you'v had them sorted its put the tracking out

[Mandrake]

Thanks for that Peter, the outer edges do seem to have worn since the track rod ends were replaced, the mechanic did count the amount of turns when he replaced them. the MOT is due in February so I will replace the tyres and get it tracked

Counting the turns is not nearly accurate enough unfortunately, even if you were refitting the same track rod ends and the tracking was correct before hand, which it probably wasn't if the joints were worn.

I forget the exact figure and it varies a bit by car, but if you're out by even 1/4 of a turn that's something like 2mm of error in the tracking PER SIDE, eg you're potentially 4 millimetres out (which is a lot!) if you get both sides wrong by a quarter of a turn in the same direction.

When you're replacing the joint you have the added source of error that after market parts often don't have the same number of visible threads, making thread counting completely invalid.

Whenever a track rod end is disconnected at the threaded section on the track rod arm or the joint is replaced there is no alternative but to have the tracking measured and adjusted properly, otherwise it's extremely unlikely the tracking will be within spec, and more likely it's a long long way out wearing your tyres rapidly as Peter N suggested. Get the tracking professionally adjusted (definitely before fitting new tyres) and go from there.

Your noise when reversing, does it only happen on full lock, and does it only happen on full lock in one direction ? Is it like a clicking or grinding noise ?

Another thing that can happen if the tracking adjustment is a long way out due to being done by guesswork is that the rack may be offset - the track rod on one side is too long and the other side is too short to compensate - sometimes people turn the steering wheel on the splines to hide the fact that the steering wheel isn't straight up and down when going straight ahead, but you end up with a situation where the steering can turn too sharp in one direction but not sharp enough in the other direction.

In the direction it turns too sharp the drive shaft can sometimes rub on the outside of the CV joint and make a grinding/rumbling noise but only on full lock in one direction. Count the number of turns including the angle during the last turn from straight ahead to left and right lock - if the angle of the steering wheel is not exactly equal and opposite on both locks then the steering wheel is on the wrong spline and the steering rack will be offset.

[musicman]

Hi Lads, I must thank you all for your input. You were totally correct in your diagnosis. the first stop today was to the garage to have the tracking done, i had already explained i wanted the car tracking before i purchased new tyres, the mechanic said I dont know how you have been driving the car as the wheels where 17mm out, also as you suggested the steering wheel was out of alignment. The job now done and reshod for my piece of mind. the car traveled like a dream, and the first thing after getting onto the drive was to reverse off and find the problem has been fixed. I cant thank you enough for sorting out my problems, it goes to prove just how useful these forums are and also how knowledgeable you lads are
many thanks again John

[big sarg]

Hi

My c5 does this also it feels like when I turn full lock right at speeds of around 5mph it under steers and skips abut whilst a rumbling sound is coming from the offside wheel, I had my tracking checked and realigned yesterday but mine is still doing it,

What else could I check to fix this

[Peter.N.]

Mine does that to, I think its just a 'characteristic'.

Peter

[Mandrake]

One front wheel scrubbing and jumping slightly on full lock is a typical characteristic of McPherson struts, which have poor/compromised geometry, especially when nearing full lock.

Depending on the tyre condition and road surface it may or may not be noticeable. On smooth seal with tyres with plenty of tread depth you probably won't notice any scrubbing as the tyre tread flexes enough to compensate for the geometry error between the two wheels, but if the outsides of your tyres are low on tread depth or you're on loose gravel you'll hear it scrubbing the tyre as the two wheels simply can't track accurately with each other on a tight lock due to the camber errors introduced by the McPherson strut geometry.

It can also be noticeable on an indoor car park with smooth but slippery surfaces where the front outer wheel lets go in small lurches as you turn on full lock. I had that happen to me on my Xantia recently and wondered what the heck was going on but then noticed that all the cars that followed me (most likely also McPherson struts) also lurched and squealed on the outer front tyre on full lock on the same patch of slippery ground.

[big sarg]

It's got Michelin tyres all round and the fronts have about 4-5mm left of them at a guess quite a bit of meat left on them anyway, so is the normal on the mk2 because I haven't not got this on the mk1 vtr I also drive