Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
nametooshort
Posts: 146
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:22

Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by nametooshort » 21 Nov 2013, 22:16

I just basically wanted to see a few real people's opinions on the 205 D-turbo. Does anybody here have one? Or had one for a significant amount of time? I want some real life user/owner feedback please!

I heard a lot of conflicting information about them. There seems to be two opposing schools of thought:

1) They are truly revolutionary, and their performance equals/rivals GTIs from the early GTI era, so basically they are the diesel incarnation of the Golf-Killer (not that Golf GTis are hard to rival since they are over-hyped and slow/underpowered anyways). They are no worse than any other GTI hot-hatch of that era, and they achieved it with a diesel engine long before anybody else managed to make performance-oriented diesels in mass produced cars, and their legacy lives on so much that they are still reasonably 'fast' even by modern standards.

2) They are totally over-exaggerated and drive like a any other 80s diesel. They are usable but nothing special, and nothing compared to the GTI gassers of the era. They may have been a little exiting as a diesel when they first appeared, in a world filled with previous-generation diesels which were basically tractor engines, but these days the cheapest bottom-of-the-barrel base model 1.0-1.2 hatchback would beat them easily. In fact, almost anything that's made now days that has 4 wheels and is called a 'car' is infinitely superior to them in every way, as is the case with a lot of 80s 'hot' cars.

As you can see, those two opinions are very conflicting, but EVERYONE I ask either regurgitates one or the other of these options pretty much word-for-word. Hearing such mixed opinions has totally confused me.

So, do YOU have one of these? Whats your personal opinion?

Some people even go as far as saying, that as a performance-oriented engine, the 1.8D-turbo is actually superior to the 1.9td, which is much more commercial-oriented.

Iv seen the facts and figures on paper and such, but it would be cool to hear real live testimonies.

Thanks!

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 9548
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 687

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 21 Nov 2013, 22:26

I don't know if it helps, but a friend of mine had a late BX (J or K reg.) turbo diesel, and he loved it. Using the gearbox properly it used to go like a scalded cat, while driven economically it would do over 45MPG. The only thing I know that went wrong on it was the alternator brushes, which were replaced for under £20.

Northern_Mike

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Northern_Mike » 21 Nov 2013, 22:43

A friend of mine had one for years. His folks lived in Arisaig and he used it commute up from Birmingham to see them.

Went with him once. Fort William to Arisaig, 31 minutes, at night. It did have 300w of extra lighting, and he was into clubman rallying, but even so..

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 9548
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 687

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 21 Nov 2013, 22:48

I notice you said "Went with him once". I take it the journey was exciting?

Northern_Mike

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Northern_Mike » 21 Nov 2013, 23:04

When someone gets you to recline your seat, then yank the seatbelt until it locks, then hold it while they wind your seat forward until you are firmly trapped by the locked belt, you know it's going to be a wild ride. It was 32 miles on an A/B road back in 1994 I think. It doesn't sound much, but in a 205 TD at night, it's a hell of an average speed.

Very good driver actually, we used one of his other cars as our wedding car first time I got married. A white E-Reg 20V Audi Quattro Coupe, the proper ones :-) Something bizarre about going down the A40 *at speed* with white ribbons flapping in the wind..

User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 08 Feb 2007, 00:46
x 3

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Xaccers » 21 Nov 2013, 23:50

Even the plain old 1.8D's used to shift! I've had several and used to do (s)Hatfield to Purbrook in an hour at night, 100 miles in an hour.

Northern_Mike

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Northern_Mike » 21 Nov 2013, 23:55

My bro had a 1769cc BX NA diesel, That was a little slow, but once it was wound up it would cruise at spot on 100 all day 5 up. Frugal too. It once went from Rossendale to Walthamstow and back 5 up, on a single tank of fuel.

User avatar
nametooshort
Posts: 146
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:22

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by nametooshort » 22 Nov 2013, 00:39

I have a 305 with the 1.8 n/a in it, and I find that it barely keeps up with traffic. OK, there are a lot of good points about it, its really good on fuel and you can haul stuff with it, and once you get it up to about 70 or 80 it will stay there on level ground, but as soon as it comes to ANY kind of hill, its like, pedal to the floor, shift to 4th, and hope you can maintain 50.

Its one of those cars where you drive flat out all the time and you can floor it and basically nothing happens. Its impossible to spin the wheels in any gear under any circumstances. In fact, its impossible to do almost anything dangerous. Usually if you 'abuse' a front-drive car, by aggressively down-shifting and flooring it, you will just spin the wheels, look like a idiot, and that's that. This car, hell, its impossible to abuse, no matter what you do it either slooooowly accelerates, or accelerates just as slow but makes more noise lol. It just basically has very little torque, and the little torque it does have is right at the bottom of the RPM range. Its basically like driving a truck. On the dyno its showing that it's making its specified power and torque, so it's actually a very healthy example of those engines.

But, according to some people, the turbo version of that engine is what makes all the difference, it gives it a lot more torque under boost, which transforms it by giving it what the n/a engine is missing so bad, which is usable power.

Would you agree, or disagree?

I am going to retire that motor and fit a new one, my natural choice would be the biggest one they make (number one rule of engine transplants: Use the biggest one that will fit, otherwise you WILL regret it) which is the XUD11 turbo, BUT the amount of praise I heard for the 1.8D-turbo (and the fact that it would be easier to fit) made me think twice.

There are a lot of people out there who believe the 1.8D-turbo, despite being the smallest, is the most capable of the XUD family, only rivaled by the much later HDis. So despite it's lower power output, it has much nicer torque curves and such, which makes it much more usable.

Like, I aint looking for no race car or nothing, you know, but something that at least can climb hills, and something where flooring the gas pedal is at least a noticeable event rather than the norm, would be cool.

Hence me asking, is the 1.8D-turbo REALLY such a miracle one-off unrivaled even by its bigger brothers for like the next decade at least?

Andy F
Posts: 154
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 00:58
x 6

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Andy F » 22 Nov 2013, 00:58

I had the 1.8 turbo diesel in a (don't laugh please) rover 218 SLD 1993 same engine. It was excellent, pretty quick, quite refined and frugal. But the 1.9td Xantia I had next was superior in every way and it was quieter at idle too.

The engine was the best thing about that car. The problem with that car was it was a bit of a mongrel. Japanese body, French engine and I believe a German gear box. Access to anything in the engine bay was a badly thought out joke. The alternator being the biggest challenge as I removed it off its mountings easily enough but then had remove heaps of stuff to get it out of the depths!

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41564
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1052

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by CitroJim » 22 Nov 2013, 05:53

I had a 1.8TD 205 STDT a long while back.

Went like a scalded cat. I also had at the same time a 1.6 GTi 205 and it truly pulled its pants down...

The STDT went so well it was almost insane and scary almost... Lovely cars...

Northern_Mike

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by Northern_Mike » 22 Nov 2013, 09:58

Andy F wrote:I had the 1.8 turbo diesel in a (don't laugh please) rover 218 SLD 1993 same engine. It was excellent, pretty quick, quite refined and frugal. But the 1.9td Xantia I had next was superior in every way and it was quieter at idle too.
I agree about the Rover. I had a 418 Tourer with the same engine as a company car. It'd do 120mph loaded with 5 fatties and a boot full of 90s Compaq proliant servers... where legal of course :-)

Great car. Did over 160k in two and a half years from new. Thoroughly abused, the only fault that it ever had was a snapped clutch cable.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 15:28
x 63

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by spider » 22 Nov 2013, 13:24

* raises hand *

I had a 205 D-Turbo (the real one, like Jim's) with tacho etc not the MardiGras later models. I had mine 6 or 7 years. If it was a 3 door and had PAS (I know I could of added it, it had all the other toys! including the vac sunroof) I may of kept it. Ultra rustproofed body too, mine was a H plate. Later one ie single foglight on the back, black dash, three spoke steering wheel etc.

They do go very very well indeed, the few others I saw were a bit neglected but once properly setup they are very quick indeed and economical if driven gently.

If its slow its broken. Between say *ahem* 30 and *something higher* little should keep up if you drive it properly.

You could not drive it hard as you'd end up in the hedge. I did debate adding the intercooler but decided it was quite quick enough. :)

Agree the NA 1.8D is not slow either really, lots of power for a light car.

EDIT... Additional:

No real issues really with it. The fuel heater on the back of the block I bypassed and made my own that was a £$%£$% to get at and I had to replace a heater hose and had to take the inlet manifold off for access made more fun by the rounded hex bolts but anyway that was partly my fault as I should of renewed them when I did the head I suppose. Metal fuel pipes I changed too much fun bending them.

Huge amount of speedbumps here so I had to change the front (GTI type so not too cheap!) wishbones every 18 months or so, pattern ones were a third of the price of genuine though so it about balanced out as genuine lasted about 4 years.

User avatar
nametooshort
Posts: 146
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:22

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by nametooshort » 22 Nov 2013, 19:18

Well, I think I almost decided then, you guys kinda convinced me (although, as people probably noticed I change my mind about a million times), I will try the 1.8d-turbo engine as the next engine in my 305! Looks like its almost settled!

You mentioned that you had a 'real' one rather than a later MardiGras model. Is that just a trim/spec thing? If im looking for one being broken to use it's engine for my transplant, does it matter? I was under the impression that late models were just more cheap and plasticky, and didn't have some features, but the engine was the same cool one as the 'real' D-turbo got. Or is that not the case?

My 305 has a remote mounted coolant/fuel heat exchanger in the filter housing, which is not on the engine or anywhere near the engine, but is in fact mounted to the body. It also already has a front-mounted cooler setup made for it, which is all made and ready to be fitted whenever I fit a turbo engine.

Im figuring the 305 is a little bit (but not that much) heavier than a 205, so the cooler won't be such a bad idea.

Thanks.

User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 15:28
x 63

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by spider » 23 Nov 2013, 13:03

I think its trim mostly. Can always wind it up a bit I guess if needed. I only mentioned "real" as most seem to be the MardiGras rather than the STDT or D-Turbo which were a bit thin on the ground. There was a GRDT as well (even rarer)

Unlike the 306DT which did get slower, early L/M plates are more lively than an (old shape) P plate for example. I recall there were three 'settings' for the timing as they aged, reducing their livelyness.

The thermostat housing design precludes having the 'top hat' fuel filter / heater on the 205 units, I forget the specifics its hose related however, I spent a lot of time looking at various designations to determine this. Transplanting into something else would not be a concern I think.

evilally
Posts: 745
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
x 1

Re: Anybody had/have a 1.8D-turbo? (205 or otherwise)?

Post by evilally » 23 Nov 2013, 13:37

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 1.7/1.8 exactly the same as the 1.9 just with narrower bores? This means more metal in the block, and around 15-20kg more weight if I remember rightly. I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't fit the 1.9?