C5 Buying advice

[Chris570]

Morning Gents/Ladies.

At some point I'm thinking I will have to go over to the dark world of C5's. I love my Xantia HDi dearly but realistically she will become unreliable eventually. I cover 70-80 miles a day so this seems the logical way to go.

Soo to the main point here. I'm going to be on the lookout for a C5 estate 2.2HDi (with a view to ditching the crappy FAP system) with an autobox. I don't really mind if the autobox has failed or there are FAP warnings etc. I will ideally want all of the toys and proper Citroen suspension is a must (none of that coiled metal crap thanks).

What should I be looking for and does anybody have any advice? I'm not in any rush at all, this can take a year to find as the Xantia is still thundering along well.

[addo]

Having stared down the barrel of a Xantia-free existence (at least for a while) I concluded the logical replacement was a late CX.

The C5 bothers me with multiplexing, historical BSM/PSF1 issues, injector calibration worries, resistive track height correctors and an electrical suspension pump.

[Northern_Mike]

Having stared down the barrel of a Xantia-free existence (at least for a while) I concluded the logical replacement was a late CX.

The C5 bothers me with multiplexing, historical BSM/PSF1 issues, injector calibration worries, resistive track height correctors and an electrical suspension pump.

The C5 is a nice car to be in. I find them comfort than a Xantia, the driving position is better and they're quieter.

That said, heed Addo's warning about the multiplexing. You're welcome to stick a Lexia on mine and have a play if you like just to get an idea of how utterly hateful it might turn out to be.

My next car will be Japanese. That says it all for me!

[Peter.N.]

I was very reluctant to go down the C5 route but now I have I think the car is the logical replacement for the XM, not quite as big or comfortable but probably the best you can get.

I started with a 2.2 and although it drove very well it was thirsty and that seems to be general, with an auto box it will be even worse, mine wouldn't average much more than 40 mpg and that was manual, the manual 2.0. I have now will do 60 mpg+ driven in my grandfatherly way. If economy is not an issue, yes the 2.2 is a very nice car.

Peter

[Citroenmad]

While I agree the driving position in the C5 is better - it offers more space, I can't get away with the seats for very long. Two hours behind the wheel of either of our C5s and I'm starting to feel like I need to stop and have a walk. I've always had this in C5s and thought it a normal travelling thing until I got a well equipped Xantia (Activa, VSX, Exclusive) ( seats in basic Xantias don't do anything for me either) and I never have to stop on a long journey. If I ever get another C5 it will have to be an Exclusive with electric seats, these should offer the adustment I want.

C5s are good cars generally, personally I wouldn't buy a 2.2HDi 136 but you're usually up for a challenge Chris. These can be got very cheaply and are really the only option besides the V6 in the early shape C5 Exclusive SE, which is no doubt the model you are looking for unless you are going newer shape C5.

As I said, I wouldn't bother with the early 2.2, its got too many issues, even aside from the FAP there are the injectors which have a problem of rusting into the block, etc etc. Economy is pretty dreadful too. I know someone with a 2.2HDi Exclusive SE Auto which does about 34mpg on average. The manuals are quite a bit better, you should see mid 40s on a run but that is the price you pay for having an auto and no DMF to replace.

What I WOULD recommend and I think it woud suit you perfectly is a facelifted (not the German one!) 2.2HDi 173bhp, the twin turbo one. That is generally a more sorted engine to the earlier and low powered 2.2 (the 2.0HDi 138 in the facelift feels much better) and returns good economy. They come in VTX+ - VTR which has cruise, auto stuff, etc and also in built phone, CD changer and large colour sat nav. Or they were available in Exclusive which needs speccing up with options on the facelift or else you miss leather and satnav but you do get power folding mirrors, front and rear parking sensors and directional Xenons. However you might notice C5s with this engine are rare and try finding a well equipped Exclusive Auto with the 173 engine, its not easy ... add on an estate body and you might as well be looking for a GS birotor.

If you didn't want the full hydractive so much but could live with the normal C5 set up I would suggest looking for a 2.0HDi 138 facelift C5 estate in Exclusive trim level. These are getting pretty cheap now and there are a few around with auto boxes. Its a better engine than the 2.2 136 in my opinion, its better on fuel too and it feels a lot more lively.

Most of the C5 issues have been explained on here quite regularily and most are reasonably easily sorted. Electrical gremlins in the form of the comms2000 unit, heater controls and interesting window buttons seem the most common irritations. Suspension is generally good, however I have not yet had a fully hydractive C5, maybe this is why I'm not currently a C5 owner as they have lacked that. However that would have ment buying a 2.2HDi 136 and its not for me. It is a shame that H3+ is engine defined and not spec defined, else I would probably have a 2.0HDi 138 Exclusive facelift C5 now.

One of my main pet hates with the C5 is the steering wheel, if anything above LX or SX they have a 'leather' steering wheel. They say its leather but its never seen a cow, over time it decomposes, leaving a rough feeling wheel which during hot days turns your hands black and sticky. Its a great feature ... can be covered up with another wheel cover but I can't stand those things either! I have a space LX wheel to go on should I get another tacky version. Mind, it might be better than that of smaller Cs, as the finish on those just peals off ... is leather really that expensive? My Xantias leather wheels are perfect.

Anyway, the C5 shouldn't trouble you. Brakes can be a little annoying, the front calipers will no doubt stick on with the handbrake mechanism and handbrake cables are a bit of a pita to change, the rear calipers get wedged due to corrosiond build up between the arm.

General reliability I feel is good. Our eldest C5 is approaching 160K miles and has only really needed the maintenance you would expect of a car with that mileage and we have no plans to ever sell it. Our 2005 C5 has been excellent for the 65K miles (110K in total) we have done with it, in that time only needing service parts, tyres and recently a new clutch as the DMF was making awful noises.

I've obviously gone the other way and went from three C5s in a row to having three Xantias. I prefer the Xantias for a lot of reasons but as you say they are not going to last forever, especially in high demand daily use. The C5 is a nice car and I am looking around at the moment thinking what else would I buy in a similar segment or that of a small Exec car and I still come back to the C5 as, while they don't ride as well as the Xantias or XMs, they do ride better than just about everything else.

[CitroJim]

I saw an early C5 on the road yesterday and relatively they're beginning to look almost attractive.

That's not to say they are but more a reflection on the hideous creations that presently litter our highways...

[qprdude]

If your budget can stretch to an X7, and they are becoming very affordable, then they are world away from the earlier cars in most respects. The build quality, comfort, ride quality, sound insulation and seats are totally different to my old Mk 1.
I know there are plenty C5 owners who turn their noses up at the C5 x7, bleating about 'Germanic styling, complex electronics etc. But I suspect it's mostly from people who have never had the experience of driving one. My x72.2 Exc. Is a stunning piece of engineering, not quite in Veyron territory but the 173 is rapid enough for most tastes, especially when you need to overtake on short notice. The cabin is a lovely place to be and the multi position seats are second to none. Not economical, I'll give you that, but it's a big car with big performance. No doubt I'll get shot down in flames by the old brigade, but having driven for 44 years, in everything from a Morris Cowley to an S type Jaguar I don't think I'd swop the x7 for many current cars. Only the Exclusive mind, as the suspension and all the toys are vital to an old goat like me. Basically, you usually get what you pay for ,if you do your research properly and as you have plenty of time, you should be test driving all the options, as only you can decide what you want in a car. Everyone will have horror stories to tell about their C5, but you rarely hear from the happy owners. Good hunting.

[Peter.N.]

I have fitted leather seats in mine, the seats themselves are no more comfortable but they do have a wide range of adjustments as Chris says, we drove to the north of Scotland in it earlier this year and I had no real problem with the driving position.

The seat adjustments are the same as those in the 406 but I find that better because the front of the seat lifts higher and stops your knees from flailing about, I overcame that problem on the C5 by fitting a couple of spacers under the front mountings, if you don't have long legs that shouldn't be a problem though.

We averaged 60.1 mpg on our Scottish trip.

Peter

[VertVega]

What should I be looking for and does anybody have any advice? I'm not in any rush at all, this can take a year to find as the Xantia is still thundering along well.

Some years ago I've already written that when I buy another car it'll probably be C5 II (phase 2) and petrol and Estate
When my Xantia's clock showed reading starting with 4 and followed by 5 zeros (km reading!), I bought C5 and sold my dear old trusty friend who never ever left me on the road

C5 is larger, quieter, better fuel economy and etc.but those wide selection of gadgets, BSI, CAN Bus and other electronics circuits make me a bit concerned/worried. IF everything works that's a great car but IF something goes wrong then I would feel a little bit helpless. Steering wheel was too light compared to Xantia but I got used it now. In Xantia there was almost no case which I couldn't deal with. Also the support you get from forum is endless For example my Lexia (eastern clone) worked fine with Xantia but I can't make it work fully with C5.

Some advices or check points:
- suspension works fine in all levels
- air condition works fine for both sides if it has dual air condition

[Chris570]

First off, cheers for your thoughts so far!

You're right, I am up for a challenge, with both an Activa and XM in the fleet i'm used to spanner wielding.

I'm thinking Mk1.5 due to electrical gremlins etc i'm liking the sound of 173 horses.... at what point did they come in?

Mine is now reading 379,000km so she's not far off!

[Stickyfinger]

I have had both now. Mk1 2ltD and Mk1 1.6LtrD facelift

Mk1 and Mk1 Facelift are really the same beast except for the wire work.
If you find a really good one with all the bells and whistles (Mk1 Face) but without the leather...get it then get some leather from a Mk1 Excl, it is cheap and will swap over OK. I totally agree with the other guys, the cloth seats are crap, Leather ones offer 100% more comfort, they have armrests and if lucky they are heated as well ...seat switches are delicate however so no bottles stuffed down the sides

You cannot without a lot of work, retro fit the sat nav....hey use a TomTom, the maps are better anyway with speed traps ect....not on the Citroen disks. I DO NOT MISS it.

I liked the low down grunt in the 2lt, I like the economy (motorway/loaded/70...55-60mpg) of the 1.6 and the low tax, low congestion charge

DPF systems ARE the big problem with all Facelift models....get it off or sorted correctly...try and botch it and it will always disappoint you

all the other stuff I leave to those who have the technical knowledge

[micky707]

All I can say is I love driving my C5, there is nothing out there for the money that comes close, I did look at an Avensis but your talking twice the cost. I agree with Sticky about dpf, but I have had no issues yet and hopefully wont just yet as Im only on 48k.

Go get one, you wont regret it, just make sure you give it a good look over and that all works as it should.

[jgra1]

make sure the back windows go up and down.. stupid design ..

[Citroenmad]

Generally the facelift C5s are far better for DPF issues, the earlier 2.2 136 was one of the first cars to have it fitted and so it did seem to get a good ironing for later models. Our 2.0HDi 138 has never had a DPF problem and it has not had the fluid topped up yet either, its done 110K miles.

First off, cheers for your thoughts so far!

You're right, I am up for a challenge, with both an Activa and XM in the fleet i'm used to spanner wielding.

I'm thinking Mk1.5 due to electrical gremlins etc i'm liking the sound of 173 horses.... at what point did they come in?

Mine is now reading 379,000km so she's not far off!

You'll most likely find a VTX+ or Exclusive from 06 reg onwards with the 2.2 173 engine. It is a great unit and the one I drove was very nice indeed. As said, should you get a C5 without leather or even electric seats, they just plumb straight in without messing.

Satnav can't be fitted without changing the dash but I was never too bothered about finding one with satnav as it doesnt take postcodes, it seems a bit out of date in that respect.

[KP]

Well it's time to throw the cat amongst the pigeons

I have owned so far this year

C5 hdi90 hatch
C5 2.2hdi manual
Xantia v6
Xantia td
Xm 2.5 estate.

The hdi90 was super cheap to run for a diesel, regularly getting 50mpg without any right foot reservation.
The 2.2hdi gets into the 40's with me but now it's with my dad he says it's no worse on a run than the hdi90 and only seems to do worse on short town trips, but I think this will settle as he learns to change up even earlier than the old hdi90.

The xm 2.5 is the best of both of the above IMO.
It costs 80p/l to fill
It gets at least 45mpg with my mixed driving, only once dippy to below to 42 after I picked it up
It doesn't half shift and cruise with little effort in 5th at 30mph!
The seats are lovely and comfortable and I haven't even or leather heated ones yet

The c5 2.2 was an exclusive spec when we bought it and I got leather fitted to it for a massive £100!
It was already de fap'd and Eolys disabled. It's a manual as well and may well get the egr blanked off in the future as well.
Don't worry about the se spec. It only really gets you satnav and it's pretty much useless when built into any car these days.

Make sure the engine pulls well, they are used in a few other vehicles so spare units are usually about £3-500 a piece.
If it smokes when you first drive it it generally means it's not really been pushed. After a few miles of pushing if it's not cleared out then it's going to be injector fun most likely.

The hdi110 is really the better one to go for with a remap done on it but the prices reflect this.
The hydractive 3+ is a noticeable improvement over the standard 3 system.
Pumps have been known to fail but aren't too big a job to replace.

Replacing spheres is something they are all coming upto needing at this age range. Trust me they are a nightmare to do compared to a xantia or xm! One reason more than any I want to move my dad into a 2.5xm but the hatch version has a bootlip so it's a no go ;(