2.2HDi clutch

[SaabC5]

Just bought a new clutch for my 2.2HDi C5 as its started to slip after 111k miles. Has anybody done this job who could give me any further info, ie subframe out etc etc. Never done a C5 and i think Monsieur Citroen will have a few surprises in store for me.

[jgra1]

will be doing mine soon Saab., 2.0 though.. will keep an eye on this post,
John

[SaabC5]

Nobody?

[jgra1]

imagine it same as 2.0 Saab..

no need to remove sub, or exhaust I don't think..I would treat it similar to a xant, but bear in mind the weight of it.,

there is another post on here from yesterday about Clutch change, and Paul Citxm , has done a 2.0 before..

John

[RichardW]

I've done a 2.0 16V HDi - it's not easy! I imagine the 2.2 will be similar, it's covered in Haynes. Info below. Go carefully with the +ve feed onto the power board, it's easy to break off, as my mate found out to hs cost....

New clutch is in Unfortunately car has decided it doesn't want to start now (more on that in a bit).

This car has done 90k, and the friction plate was barely worn - the total thickness is maybe 3mm each side, but there are grooves about 1mm deep in the face, and these were still visible on the old plate, so well <30% worn. The release bearing however fell apart, and when the flywheel was rotated against itself (DMF) there was alu dust coming out of the bottom. No wonder it was noisy!! Be prepared for a shock when buying the bits, as the 4 parts of the clutch kit are at least £400!

The job's quite tough going, but certainly doable in 2 days - one would be pushing it first time, although with the tips below, maybe not. Expect a large pile of bits on the floor in the middle of the job! Haynes covers it not too bad, but there are specific differences with this engine / box combo (2.0 HDi 136 / ML6C) that it omits So for anyone elese stupid enough to try this, here's some tips:

1. Don't even think about doing it without an overhead lift of some sort - there is a lot of wiggling required to get the box out, and it would be nigh on impossible with only a jack underneath.
2. The power steering return pipe runs across the back of the gearbox , about 3" under the chassis rail (yes, in fresh air!). This needs to be disconnected otherwise you can't get the box out (trust me, we tried. For a long time!). Be prepared for LDS loss, and replacement, otherwise you have to trek all the way across Edinburgh to buy 3 litres of the (very expensive from the dealer, like £15/litre!) stuff. There's a convenient rubber to alu pipe join at the back of the rad you can disconnect. However, take the lid of the LDS tank first to release the 0.5 bar pressure (we didn't!).
3. Contrary to others we have done the engine needs to be high to get the box out, but low to free the gearbox mount, so there is some up/down required.
4. There's a bracket bolted on the back of the diff to the engine block that needs to come off. At first try, you can't get the bolt into the engine out as it is fouled by another lump of cast iron bolted on the back of the block. After a lot of consideration you decide that the lump cannot be removed easily, so you chop slices off the bolt till it comes free. Later you find out that the lump HAS to be removed as it is hiding another engine / box bolt above the diff you haven't noticed before. You wil then find in fact that the lump is easily removed by removing the turbo pipe flexi hose and 2 nuts
5. The BOL says something along the lines of sqeeze the clips on the gear cables and lift them out. Ha ha! Not in a thousand hours. However, the cable bracket is bolted on the back of the box, and 5 minutes (blind, mind you, reaching over the diff) with the ratchet and the whole block comes free
6. The gearbox mount is different on these - a big rubber donut bolted to the inner wing, and a bracket on the box. Once you have removed the ECU box, take out the two vertical bolts, then drop the engine / box so you can undo the two bolts / 1 nut on the bracket on the gearbox (one is under the donut, and there is not enough room to lift the bolt out ) you can them manipulate the bracket out by rotating it around the donut.
7. If you can manage the driveshaft middler bearing bolts without taking the wing liner out on the OS do so - getting it out (and back in!) is a long arduous soul destroying job!
8. There's a brace across the bottom of the subframe that needs to come off too - but 4 bolts and it's easy!
9. This car uses a self adjusting push clutch. LUK will tell you that need an expensive tool to mount it. However, provided the mech is adjusted up (it was on the new one supplied) then I can't see why - they waffle about distorting the pressure plate - but not unless you are a ham fisted gorilla - it's about 4mm thick, and the bolts are only about M8! Certainly we just used an alignment tool to set the friction place and carefully progressively bolted it down.

The car started and moved fine on Saturday afternoon, but then my mate phoned on Sunday to say it wouldn't start Not sure what we have done - I think crank sensor is unlikely as it ran fine on Sat, unless we knocked it and it gave out a bit later. I don't even remember seeing it! The only fly in the ointment is that as part of taking the ECU box out we disconnected the main +ve feed post to it, and when tightened up, there was a disconcerting crack noise. Current thought is that we might have broken it off inside the box - but then I would expect difficulty in cranking it, or other electrical items not working.

Bugger, said Doogal.....

Hope the clutch continues to hold out in my Xantia so we don't have to do another one too soon!

[jgra1]

very useful Rich..

hope she gets working again asap

John

[SaabC5]

Thanks for that Richard, very useful. Re the prices, got the LUK clutch for £85 and DMF for £225 delivered from carparts4less so pretty reasonable.

[Mandrake]

Wow. And people wonder why I'm not keen to take the gearbox out on my V6

[addo]

It's very different.

[SaabC5]

Ok, the jobs done. Broke it down with the box out on Friday night in about 4 hours. No issues with power steering pipe at rear or LDS loss. I took out the o/s front wheel arch liner, broke down the suspension and removed the gearbox via the wheel arch. A two post lift is ideal but I only had a four post lift so this method worked best for me. I put a new clutch slave cylinder in, it would have been stupid not to for the sake of £22! The friction plate was only about 60% worn but the pressure plate was mullered and the DMF was toast (there was half an inch of movement in all directions of the centre) . Took me about 7 hours to bolt it all back together yesterday but it's a different car to drive now, the clutch is feather light and the biting point is about 2 inches off the floor, not right at the top of the pedal. Looks like I'll be keeping her for a few more years now! '

[KP]

Very good work Saab

Was just about to ask if they did dmf replacement flywheels for these to get rid of the worst part of them imo

[SaabC5]

A solid flywheel conversion is available on the carparts4less website but curiously it was about £50 more than the dual mass one.

[KP]

Saab,

As I'm helping my dad get his gearbox out today any pointers would be appreciated

Did you leave the PAS pipes intact and are there any bolts round the back of the box that need to come out other than those round the bell housing that secure it to the block?

We thought we had them all out but the box and block are still firmly attached

We have taken a lot of the pipework out of the way, the battery tray, gearbox earth, disconnected the speedo pickup, slave cylinder supply pipe and the gearbox to chassis mount bolts and nut.

Even resorted to taking the end plate off to help with room as well

Grr this is so annoying as he needs it back on the road really before next week.

[SaabC5]

Left the PAS pipes in situ. Had to take the front part of engine fuse box out, they hid a bolt under there for giggles. Have you done the bolt at the very top of the bellhousing? Its a real pig to get to and you need small hands to access. Also dropped the brace bar/subframe that runs across behind the engine or there's not enough room to drop the gearbox out without fouling the PAS pipes.

[KP]

Cheers Saab.

hadnt dropped the subframe but that makes sense now as im guessing just the bolts on that side can drop out to lower it enough.

the bolt at the top of the bellhousing was a pig, as was another one round the back.
For t he fusebox hidden bolt you mention is that so you could get the gearbox mount off? We took the 3 bolts off the mount/gearbox end itself as 2 are bolts and one is a stud. As i think the gearbox is toast im tempted to take my angle grinder over and justlet my dad chop the box to bits to get it out, bit much i know but its being a right ballache now!