6 volt regulator

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

French Tickler
Posts: 11
Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:21

6 volt regulator

Post by French Tickler »

Hi all, there's nothing going to the battery, but if I press down on the voltage reg. coil side to make contact (lid off) then the meter shows voltage to the battery. Now can I fix this, or do I need a new regulator. If so, would any 6 volt regulator do the job. I've read that I can bend the contacts so they touch, but will they open when needed or will it just continually charge? Thanks.
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11535
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 808

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Peter.N. »

What is it on?
Gibbo2286
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 6999
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 1874

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Gibbo2286 »

You really shouldn't close the contacts like that, it makes the battery attempt to drive the dynamo like an electric motor and of course the wiring is not capable of carrying the amperage involved.

Those old regulators are pretty basic on off switches controlled by the dynamo output, if the dynamo output isn't sufficient then the contacts won't close so no charge
French Tickler
Posts: 11
Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:21

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by French Tickler »

Peter.N. wrote:What is it on?
1954 H van :)
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11535
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 808

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Peter.N. »

1954 sounds late for a 6 volt system, however if it has a voltage regulator as well as just a cut out you can jam the regulator open by inserting a piece of card between the armature and frame which will keep it charging at maximum output. If it only has a cut out as Gibbo says keeping it closed will flatten the battery. I have just re read your post and it does mention 'regulator' if it is actually a regulator then lifting it up not pushing it down will result in increased charge. I don't actually remember seeing a 6 volt system with a regulator, they usually had a sliding third brush on the dynamo to control the output.

Peter
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 48423
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 3403

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by CitroJim »

Peter.N. wrote:1954 sounds late for a 6 volt system
Back when I was just a youth I had a 1969 Renault 4 with 6V electrics Peter. I recall the regulator packed up on that one and boiled the battery!

That one had a regulator and a cutout ad what happened in my case was that the regulator contacts welded together.

It's been something like 30 years since I’ve touched a dynamo system so I hope this is fundamentally right.

Basically, if the dynamo is giving any output at all you should see an increase in voltage from the dynamo with increasing revs that will be sufficient to close the cutout contacts, put the warning light out and start charging the battery.

Manually closing the cutout with the fanbelt off is actually a kind of functional test as if the dynamo then spins it is basically good.

The regulator assembly is a very simple really and as long as all coils are good, resistors are good and contacts are clean it'll work.

If there is no rise in voltage at the dynamo D terminal (big one) then firstly check there is field excitation voltage at the smaller F terminal. This excitation is often supplied via a resistor in the regulator that may have gone open-circuit.

Otherwise the dynamo is not happy.
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11535
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 808

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Peter.N. »

Didn't realise they made 6v systems that late Jim, the only car I had with one was a 1939 Ford prefect, my next was a 1950 Hillman minx and that had 12v as did all my subsequent cars. Our local battery bloke made me up an 8 volt battery for the Ford, worked a treat, it started and you could see where you were going! To get it to charge though I had to remove the third brush and strap it to the output - that worked fine.

Peter
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 48423
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 3403

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by CitroJim »

Peter.N. wrote: and you could see where you were going!
That was the problem with 6V electrics Peter :lol: These days people moan about Xantia and XM headlights but after 6V Renault ones I can tell you they're like searchlights...

I used to think I'd be better off with a couple of glow-worms in jam jars..

I remember once I was on a longish trip at night and both dip filaments blew during the journey and I had to complete it on high beam. I don't recall anyone ever flashing me because of it...
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 24785
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 2937

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by myglaren »

CitroJim wrote:
Peter.N. wrote:1954 sounds late for a 6 volt system
Back when I was just a youth I had a 1969 Renault 4 with 6V electrics Peter. I recall the regulator packed up on that one and boiled the battery!
I had one in 1980-ish, not sure of the year, a 'R' suffix possibly. Never any trouble with electrics although the lights weren't up to much. The rear suspension disintegrated and killed it :(
exect
Posts: 61
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 19:02

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by exect »

I think that more often than not the excitation voltage was provided by the charge lamp being in series with the supply to the excite terminal, so the bulb needs to be the correct one.
Exect
BX
Posts: 476
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 01:53
x 17

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by BX »

A dynamo differs from an alternator in that voltage is initially generated due to the armature rotating in the weak magnetic field of the pole pieces of the field coils. Hence the need to polarise as described in a previous thread. The warning lamp is not needed. Alternators on the other hand use the warning lamp to provide a small current through the rotor which creates the rotating field to start voltage induction in the stator coils. Alternators will generally not start charging without a working warning lamp.
Back to the problem in hand. French dynamo regulators are generally of the 2 spool type. One is used to regulate the voltage and the other is used to connect and disconnect the regulator from the battery.
To do a simple test on the regulator disconnect all the wires from it. There should be a complete short circuit between the "DYN" and the "exc" terminals. If you have the cover removed you can press the armature of the regulating spool thus opening the contacts. There should now be a resistance of a few ohms between the terminals. There should be no ontact between the "DYN" and the battery terminals. Pressing on the armature of the cutout spool should short circuit these 2 terminals together.
If the dynamo is fitted to the vehicle it may be tested as follows. Disconnect both wires from the dynamo. Polarise the dynamo as described in the previous thread. Join both terminals together with a short piecte of wire and also connect another longer piece of wire to the larger terminal. This longer piece will be used to connect a bulb (a 12V headlamp bulb is fine) which is used as a test load. Start the engine then connect the bulb between the length of wire and earth. It should glow, probably dimly, but should brighten up as the revs are increased.
If all that works remove the wires attached to the dynamo. Reconnect the dynamo to the vehicle wiring. The large terminal is connected to "DYN". The small terminal to "EXC" and the BAT terminal should have 6V from the vehicle battery.
Start the vehicle. When the dynamo output goes over 7V the cutout contacts should operate thus connecting the dynamo to the battery. As the voltage rises the regulator contacts should start to open slightly interupting the field current and controlling the output voltage of the dynamo. There is also a few turns of heavy wire wrapped round both spools. This is to control the maximum current and also to disconnect the cutout when the revs drop and the battery starts to discharge through the dynamo. Some British Lucas regulators used 3 spools. the markings on a lucas regulator are as follows.
D = "DYN"
E= Ground or earth
A = Battery (or ammeter if fitted)
F = "EXC" Field
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11535
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 808

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Peter.N. »

You can also change the polarity of your electrical system simply by turning the battery round and momentarily applying the live side of the battery to the field connection, or even just momentarily closing the cut out but make sure you open it again - providing there is nothing transistorised in the car.

Peter
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 12

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by citronut »

i just did a gooogly search on "H van charging circuit"
and this came up

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

H vans charging round Donington racing circuit

you might be able to find something of use in the link below

https://sites.google.com/site/citroenpublicationslist/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by citronut on 09 Oct 2013, 14:38, edited 1 time in total.
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11535
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 808

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by Peter.N. »

Yep, they are charging OK.
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
x 12

Re: 6 volt regulator

Post by citronut »

Peter.N. wrote:Yep, they are charging OK.
seems the rear one in the vid has its regulator stuck in the cut out position, as he cant catch the front van,

although the front one is probably the one with a Rover V8 under the hood :yikes: :dom: :-D :wink: