Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaking??

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Timmo
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Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaking??

Post by Timmo » 01 Oct 2013, 14:45

Affternoon guys,
now i know its very much not allowed due to the duty on heating oil not being the same etc. but Hypothetically (sp??) speaking, would the ol' trusty Xantia td engine (1.9 bosch) run okay on it??
or is it too thick, totally not suited etc. for use?? If you were to run on it, could you pay the additional duty somewhere??

curious thats all! ;-)

Timmo.

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by ecohouse1 » 01 Oct 2013, 14:58

Good question, I have often wondered if hypothetically this was possible! Heating oil is Kerosene, essentially Paraffin and the same as Jet Fuel as far as I know? Although, like the man in the Orthopedic boots said - I stand to be corrected! :roll:

I would imagine that it likes the correct lubricity for the pump etc? Not sure if its a longer or shorter chain molecule than Diesel oil, shorter I would have thought? So it would be a thinner fuel. Did they not use Paraffin to thin diesel in winter?

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Stewart(oily) » 01 Oct 2013, 14:59

I have never tried that, I think CH oil lacks lubrication but would probably work if mixed with some cooking oil and perhaps a dash of two stroke oil, I have happily run XUDs on a wide range of things, WVO with a dash of unleaded was good, new cooking oil was fine with some diesel in the mix, now I have an HDI its pump fuel only, thats not progress :(

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Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaking??

Post by addo » 01 Oct 2013, 15:39

Aye, it's all been downhill since the Johnny Popper.

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Timmo
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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Timmo » 01 Oct 2013, 15:55

So it could work okay but mixed with deisel/veg?? If its parrafin based that would technically clean the system through a bit?? kinda what the diesel magic does?? Hmmmmn, so what would you d hypothetically about paying the extra duty??

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Chlorate » 01 Oct 2013, 16:12

Actually heating oil isn't very different from diesel fuel.

If you talk hydrocarbons diesel fuel is usually a mixture of something like C8-C21 but averaging around C16 and heating oil is (apparently, according to Wikipedia) around C14-C20 - so it would potentially be a little bit gloopier than diesel fuel but probably no more so than WVO. It's considerably more complicated than this (fuels are specially blended for all sorts of properties), however I don't think the XUD cares that much.
The tax man does ;)

Interestingly I have a feeling that red diesel isn't much more than heating oil with a dash of red dye in.

Kerosene, by the way, is in the C6-C16 range - somewhere between gasoline and diesel.

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Timmo
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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Timmo » 01 Oct 2013, 16:30

Yes, am very aware if mr tax man was to find you running heating oil in your motor they get Very excited! But as its hypothetically speaking its okay! ;-)

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by lankytim » 01 Oct 2013, 18:42

Yes, it will run fine but eventually the HP pump could be damaged due to lack of lubrication. A dash of autobox oil cures this problem though!

Heating oil is basically Kerosene, which is the same as jet fuel. Apparently RAF mechanics would often drain some fuel from a parked jet, mix it with hydraulic oil and run their cars on it with no issue whatsoever (so i'm told!)

Red diesel is just normal diesel with a dye in it. It used to be very high in sulphur which caused a bit of smoke but it's now a low sulphur fuel and identical to pump diesel. Modern high tech tractors are very fussy on what they run on nowadays!

You can fill up on red diesel and pay the tax separately apparently, there's a form you can download somewhere.

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by falling-out-with-my-car » 01 Oct 2013, 19:08

you didnt hear this here, but I once knew someone down south who dried out peat on sheets of newspaper in his garage he then used his other halfs old stockings to filter the red diesel through the dried peat this takes it from a very red colour to a very light brown colour he used toi fill up his camper van with drums of filterted red to run the van on whilst on his hols.
Bosch pumped and not an HDI you should be able to run veg oil and there are a few supermarkets selling 5 litre bottles £6 each or two for £10 you just need to look for it, My 1.9td xS2 was bosch pumped and it met its demise yesterday Monday when the cambelt broke prematurely which snapped the casmshaft nopthing to do with runni g it on veg oil, which I recently decided not to process waste oil anymore as it is becomming an expensive process as most waste oil suppliers want big money for their waste oil, ebay has certainly seen to that. I had many problems with the Number 3 cylinder timing lift sensor getting stucjk running my S2 xantia on veg.
In the winter you can add up to 10% petrol to the oil to aid ignition better to run it 50/50 with diesel in my opinion but thats just my opinion. as for kerosene well Ive heard of someone running a BX XUD engine on a gallon of parraffin when they ran out of diesel just to get to the garage and apparently it smokes like crazy as it burns but it does clean out the engine very well,
It is perfectly legal to run on what is calld missfuel which is obtained by scrapyards from old scraped cars tanks and legal to burn up to 2499 litres of veg oil in any 12 month period but you must kep a record of what you use as the powers that be might want to check your not going over the limit if you cannot proove what you have used you can be charged the tax on the whole 2499 litres which I believe is about 500 gallons. they say the limit is 2500 litres but as soon as you hit 2500 you beciome liable to pay tax on the whol;e amount thats why I said 2499 litres. if your considering running on veg try five litres mixed with 5 litres of diesel check the pump for leaks and increase the ration of oil gently only if no leaks appear. in the cold winter weather you will need a higher ration of diesel to oil as veg oil has no antifreeze in it.
only do this if you have a NON- HDI and a bosch fuel pump, the word Bosch is usually written in small letters on the side of the pump facing toward the front of the car. other makes oif fuel pump do not have big enough oil ways to lubricate the pump bearings with veg oil and the pump will fail and the cost of rebuilding a diesel fuel pump can reach £1500
It costs £80 just to bolt it to the testing machine to asserttain what is wrong with it.
if your going to buy red diesel in bulk you really need to say I have a generator at home otherwise they get all inquisative about your intentions, I understand that it is available in some Norfolk & lincolnshire service stations but not many, there isa supplier that sells 20 litre drums at Melton Mowbry. The northampton fuel delivery people ask to many questions about what you are doing with it
and they want your ID and name and address to. if you'd like a visit from the enviroment agency and the police at six am on a sunday mornning to dip your tank go and buy it from them. They have been here twice after neighbours complained about my generator and on both occasions dipped the cars tank and sent me a letter to confirm that I was within the requirements of the law.
regards Nigel

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Timmo
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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Timmo » 01 Oct 2013, 19:31

i've been using tesco veg in the 2 5l for a tenner for 18 months or more now, pick up 10L a fortnight as it doesnt get used All that much, but in winter as suggested on here 50/50 veg/deisel,
i've known fisherman who ruin on red etc but I know of late the Po Po have been very hot on it! Especially down here, big car parlk take overs with ministry peeps and testing rigs! We used to use for the boats, but wouldn't use it in the car!
The heating oil is something I was curious about, I know some canal basin stores ask how much you inteend to use for fuel and How much for heating when topping up the tank with a wink wink nudge nudge! I'd guess you could fill in a relevant form if you used it in your motor and take it to the dti peeps with a pot of vasalene for the extra duty! ;-)

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by myglaren » 02 Oct 2013, 06:42

Be aware that in practice this would be highly illegal and is not condoned by the forum. Up to your individual conscience.
There is also a high risk of damage to fuel pumps and injection systems that heating systems don't have to worry about.

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by CitroJim » 02 Oct 2013, 14:09

As Steve says, this is not in any way condoned and is in fact very much frowned upon by the forum. This thread is here for academic discussion only and nothing more.

Be aware that the penalties for running red diesel (filtered or otherwise), kerosene, Jet-A1, heating oil or anything else combustible that has not had duty paid upon it for use in a road going vehicle really are very, very severe indeed and really not worn the chance.

The only exception is vegetable oil for which you're permitted to use 2500 litres per year before being liable to duty.

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Northern_Mike » 02 Oct 2013, 15:50

CitroJim wrote:As Steve says, this is not in any way condoned and is in fact very much frowned upon by the forum. This thread is here for academic discussion only and nothing more.

Be aware that the penalties for running red diesel (filtered or otherwise), kerosene, Jet-A1, heating oil or anything else combustible that has not had duty paid upon it for use in a road going vehicle really are very, very severe indeed and really not worn the chance.
Even I frown upon it, and I don't frown upon much.

I'm aware of people up where I'm originally from who've been nicked for running red biddy in their cars and road-going vehicles, and it's really something you don't want to get caught doing.

http://tinyurl.com/nl93oau" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fancy an unlimited fine, confiscation of your vehicle, or up to two years at her Majesty's pleasure in an extreme case? Go right ahead.

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Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaking??

Post by addo » 02 Oct 2013, 20:22

This is where legislation is plain lunacy. Greater penalty risk for people making ends meet, than someone who causes a company or bank to fold up...

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Re: Would a xant td run on heating oil Hypothetically speaki

Post by Northern_Mike » 02 Oct 2013, 21:10

It is, so I'm reliably informed, not generally people making ends meet who get nicked for it. It's bent types who know damn well what they are doing.