Timing belt replacement (Xantia engine)

[Wookey]

I have a 1994 Xantia 1.9TD engine in a 1997 Expert. (supplied by a kind member of this forum in 2005 when the original engine dropped a swirl chamber).

I just noticed that I last did the timing belt for the engine replacement, so it's 60,000 miles and 8 years ago, which is definitely pushing my luck. So I've bought a new belt and taken things to bits to see what the state things are in. This vehicle is now 16 years old so approximately 'everything' is getting a little tired. I'm not entirly sure to what degree I want to start the process of replacing everything in it bit by bit so that it'll last another decade (vs buying something more efficient in a couple of years time), so new bits need to be justified.

I, possibly foolishly, didn't buy the full kit, reckoning that the idler/tensioner/pump should last 2 belts, and at least the pump was new with the replacement engine. (I also have a spare idler and tensioner from the old engine.)

Should the bearings be _absolutely_ play-free if I want to carry on using them? The old belt was running true (and seems in remarkably good nick actually). Both idlers run nice and smoothly, but one can feel a tiny bit of slop in the bearings. It really is very slight on the tensioner, a bit more on the idler. I note general admonitions on here to 'replace if in any doubt', but before spending ~40 quid (wilco) a each new pulley I'd like to confirm that a new one really will have zero bearing slop? The 'spares' I have (which were presumably the least good of the ones I had at the time) are now almost identically worn to the ones on the car - i.e they are nice and smooth but have detectable bearing slop, so no better than what's currently there, which may or may not be good for a few more years...

Also where do I get a new crankshaft bolt? None of Wilco, AEP or GSF seem to have them. Go to Peugeut/Citroen direct? Old-guy says they are only £2.50 (even from a dealer?). (I have known one snap so this does seem money well spent).

Annoyingly AEP and GSF, which both seem a lot cheaper than Wilco for pulleys, only list one (AEP has the Idler pulley, GSF has the tensioner pulley), even though both sell the kits containig both, so they do have them really. Tiresome.

Finally the crank area looks like this: i.e somewhat, but not excessively, oily. Presumably that indicates a slow crankshaft seal leak? Or could itbe coming from somewhere else. Maybe that's 'normal' for 8 years of seepage and there is no point replacing it? I'm sure that seal was new on the engine replacement in 2005, but I guess it started leaking at some point. I can find that seal at GSF, but not AEP.

I note that the damper/crankshaft pulley has noticeable cracking in the rubber. How bad does ithave to get before I should buy a new one? At £112 for a new one I'm keen to conclude that I can ignore it. Do the two halves eventually shear and the drivebelt stops driving?

(I actually suspect every rubber bit on the car is tired (engine mounts, suspension mounts). How hard is it to press out the old ones and put in the new? I tried and failed to do this on a C15 lower engine mount a few years back.)

One thing I will say is that it's a hell of a lot less annoying doing this job on an expert than it was on a C15 - there is way more space.

Cheers for any advice.

[dyte2004]

i would replace everything in there just think of the effort getting at it, so new pump ,idler, crank seal, belt and tensioner is the only way forward IMHO

[Peter.N.]

It depends on how many miles its done and how long you want it to last, it is best to change everything although I have never changed the tensioner/idlers because the have been fine, give them a spin, if they rotate smoothly and quietly they are probably OK. If you are keeping it long I would suggest you change the water pump, mostly I have got away with not doing it but one started leaking soon afterward. The pulley probably will fail eventually but if it feels good and up together I wouldn't worry, its easy enough to get to at a later date.

Peter

[Wookey]

Vehicle mileage is 132,000. Engine mileage is ~ 110000. It's a camper so annual mileage is low and slow. ~3000-5000. It's got a good few miles left in it if I maintain things. (most of the bottom needs a good stripping and painting as things are starting to go rusty, and replacing 'all the rubber bits' if I want to keep it for another decade). I would like to move to something that does >40mpg sometime, but on the other hand re-doing a conversion is a pile of work.

The water pump was new at 80,000 miles. It still feels good. Is expecting it to last 80,000 (i.e it's done 50,000, be nice if I didn't have to change for another 30,000/6 years) optimisitic? Yes it's a bit of a faff getting at these bits, but it's just a day's spannering, so not really a big deal. But obviously bearing collapse and timing belt disaster is a big deal. I don't like changing stuff gratuitously.

I took the tensioner and idler off for a fondle and in fact the pulley bearing isn't that smooth, but my spare is. So my current plan is to put in new idler, new crankshaft seal, my spare tensioner and leave the water pump. And expect to have to check everything again in 5yrs/25000 miles. But I'll read what you all have to say before shopping tonight and am prepared to be persuaded.

[spider]

If the existing water pump has done 50K I'd recommend changing it personally. Although seizure is rare, them deciding to leak a few weeks later is not in some cases. I guess by being touched it seems to set them off somehow.

If it had done 20K then I'd probably leave it personally but 50K is more than halfway over the belt interval ie 72K so it makes sense to change it.

If changing tensioners: The plunger is very annoying when it falls out if you take the tension "arm" off you can make a tool to help if needed but it will go back by hand eventually. Mine seized into the housing but I managed to remove it and the mount and drill a 'release hole' to persuade it to function again. That is very rare though I think. I had no transport so had no choice but to be inventive.

The tensioners are very strong though decent metal etc. But if you say the other one is better then yes fit the best one.

[citronut]

i find the XUD tensioners are pretty tough and keep om going,
i do usually look up under the bottom of the water pump sprocket, to see if there is any sign of fur,residue building up, as this shows the pump seal is failing,

also you mention the crank pulley is showing signs of failing,
if the fails there is a risk the aux drive belt can get inside the cam belt covers and reek havoc

[Wookey]

Old_guy's info on crankshaft pulley bolt pricing (£2.50) seems a little out of date. I just got charged a hefty £4.36 for a new one at Citroen in Cambridge, and the fellow said that the workshop there never bothers changing them - just clean up and new loctite on the existing one. The new bolt does come pre-loctited for that princely sum!

Nice write-up though old-guy. Very handy.

[Peter.N.]

I have never changed one and so far have had not problems.

Peter

[Wookey]

Me neither, but I do have a friend who had one snap (on a 306, best part of 20 years ago). So it does happen occaisionally.

My bits have arrived and I've compared the new idler pulley with my existing and spare ones. The bearing slop is not zero in the new one. It's about the same as my spare one. It does have a lot more rotational friction and doesn't 'spin' at all. My spare only spins a tiny bit. The existing one spins for some time (and there is the faintest of suspicious noises, so that one probably is worth replacing, although I suspect it had at least another 30,000 miles in it. All this suggests to me that I really didn't need to get a new one. Still, only £15.50 and it's done now. Oil-seal change and re-assembly tomorrow.

[citronut]

i think i would be very hard to shear a bolt of that diameter, maybe it had been severely over tightened (6 foot scafold tube ???)

[spider]

I've never snapped one either, I realise its a bolt and its got potential to break although how you'd get that much torque on it I'm not sure, having seen the way some would gun them up anyway.

I did used to wirebrush the old locking compound off and put fresh on though.

Never had a problem "at home" with them coming loose either, undoing them on the floor is another matter but I'd never had to resort to the starter trick, I do have a length of scaffold tube for such purposes (actually for ancient Beetle rear hub nuts with a 3/4 drive 36mm socket!) but there's no space to use this on most XUD installations.

[Wookey]

All fettled now. Finished 1am thur night (before Friday's rain). No problems swapping oil seal or reassembling. Come to start car and it doesn't catch . Pumped up fuel primer, some hissing, then some dribbling. quite a lot of dribbling. Fuel hose on exit of IP split at the jubilee. Sigh - must have been disturbed by general activities. Plenty of pipe, so hacking an inch off, reattached (with proper fuel pipe clip this time), re-primed and everything works as expected. I wonder how long that's been nearly-split for...

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

I'll change the coolant tomorrow as that's due/overdue too. The new engine mount will have to wait till I find somewhere to do the pressing (or go shopping).