Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

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Rhothgar
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Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

Afternoon all,

Quick question as I am prepping the S2 for MOT.

I have low force on the OSR. I have pushed the pistons back whilst still on the car. They seemed to retract without too much effort. The brake pad bolt and nut seemed rusty so cleaned that up and worked it to a point that they are rotating separately from the pads.

The pads look low-ish (2 - 4 mm) and the discs look painfully anorexic (about 6 - 8 mm at a guess).

Thing was I thought whilst it is jacked up, I will work the pistons in and out. Put my foot on the brake but the pistons will not come back out. Is this because the car is jacked up and the power comes from the rear spheres? How to resolve please?

I am hoping that freeing that off will bring them within the imbalance limits again. Think I got 200kgf on NSR and not even 100kgf on OSR. Fronts were a nice consistent 400kgf.

Also, the front OS wheel bearing sounds as though it is going to explode imminently. It's been going to months now and is unbearable.

Are the hubs on a 110 HDi the same as a TD? Part numbers are 1 apart on Service Citroen. A mate says that they are totally different.

Cheers in anticipation.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by CitroJim »

Hi Roger, no, hubs on a 110HDI are not the same. Same as on a 2.1TD, V6 or Activa though...

Buy a bearing, take the hub to a local indy and ask him to do the press-work to replace the bearing.

On the rear brakes, they will not work at all unless the rear suspension is under load. With the rear jacked upa nd on stands there will be no pressure there at all.

The only way is to set the suspension on high, replace the wheel on the opposite side and lower until the opposite wheel is on the ground and bearing weight. Then you'll have working rear brakes.

Are the pads worn evenly with no sign of key-stoning or wedging to suggest the calliper may be suffering corrosion problems and taking it out of line with the disc and causing very uneven pad wear?

The rear discs are normally quite thin. Wear ridges near the centre boss is the best way to see how well worn they are as the very edge is in contact with the pad so no wear ridge develops there.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

Hi Jim.

I'll be having the hubs of my mate's car then that he is breaking. See For Sale and Wanted section.

I did consider buying a bearing but thought it easier to swap the hub out for now and cheaper. You know me with always wanting genuine parts.

This is exactly what my mate said that is breaking his Xantia but...

I only had the car on the wheel changing jack so the opposite wheel, I assume, MUST have been touching the ground. However, does it depend also on what height setting the suspension is on?

To be honest, as I couldn't get the pads out, I couldn't check properly. The discs look pretty OK as far as discs go but not very clean (presumably because there is no braking action on the offside and it is not cleaning them off).

I did undo the caliper as a whole and the back plate looked pretty free of corrosion so for now I will assume pads are fine.

I am going to price up some Pagid discs and pads for the rear though keen not to spend to much as going to USA next week and hiring an Electraglide for a couple of weeks and having a razz up to the 100th Harley anniversary party in Milwaukee.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, you need considerable weight on the one remaining wheel and the suspension in high Roger. Just touching is not good enough...

You need to do this for bleeding as well...
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

Wow! You were up early. Hope everything's OK.

The offside was on the kerb and the nearside was on the road so with it having tilt also, I would have thought there was a decent amount of pressure. Maybe I'm wrong.

So the setting needs to be on high - I am sure it was (only by chance though). As I said in initial post, no amount of pedal pressing brought the pistons back out of their shell.

With the Citroen system is it still necessary to have a conventional bleed setup, Jim?
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote:Wow! You were up early. Hope everything's OK.
Always up early Roger. I'm a lark!

I'm fine thanks :-D
Jim

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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

I see the post times are an hour back now! So not 4.29am! 5.30am is still too early for weary eyes.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Stewart(oily) »

You say you could not get the pads out, were they moving freely in the calipers ?also the nasty corrosion happens on the hidden face of the caliper, not much to see on the arm.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

Sorry. I did not attempt to get the pads out as I did not have a replacement bolt and nut to retain the pads.

I worked the existing bolt loose in situ but only gave it limited force to try and get the nut off else it would have sheared and I didn't have half hour spare to try and remove the nut and bolt intact.

Hope that clarifies.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Stewart(oily) »

The pads sticking in the caliper can cause imbalance, citroens seem vulnerable to this, probably because the rear brakes do so little work, the new bolts come in the brake fitting kit that should make fitting your new pads a breeze, you might get away with discs though.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

I think rather than trying to avoid spending money I am going to just get discs, pads and fitting kit. I haven't got time to try and resolve this by cleaning.

My mate made an interesting point. He said the NSR could be binding and then creating an imbalance through providing a greater output rather than simply a case of the OSR not giving enough. If OSR cleaned up gives 100kgf more and NSR cleaned up gives 100kgf less then they will be in equilibrium.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Rhothgar »

Well. Passed the MOT yesterday with flying colours. Rear brake imbalance now non-existent but...

I was very concerned to see that rear brakes are only giving 100kgf still and retardation seems the same as before I replaced rear discs and pads.

How so?

My mate's member of staff worried me a bit when he said he didn't think the servo was working. I corrected him about quirky Citroens!
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Post by addo »

He's probably related to the copper who was adamant my Xantia's front shock absorbers were worn out. When I finally convinced him to look at the front suspension he realised it was highly unlikely and ticketed me on a tyre out of spite.
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by Old-Guy »

Rhothgar wrote:Well. Passed the MOT yesterday with flying colours. Rear brake imbalance now non-existent but...

I was very concerned to see that rear brakes are only giving 100kgf still and retardation seems the same as before I replaced rear discs and pads.

How so?
Because the rear brakes take their pressure from the rear suspension, Xantias don't get much braking from the rear unless there's LOTS of weight on the rear wheels (3 passengers, a full fuel tank and a pile of luggage).
Rhothgar wrote: My mate's member of staff worried me a bit when he said he didn't think the servo was working. I corrected him about quirky Citroëns!
Strictly speaking, he was quite correct - there's no servo.....
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Re: Xantia Rear Brakes (Low Force on OSR) and NSF Bearing

Post by citroenxm »

I always advise anyone to place TWO heavy concerete slabs in the boot.. you will get a good rear brake recording then...
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