XM Lucas Epic fuel pump

[garryd]

Forgive me if this has been aired before, but I've only just joined (yesterday actually).

My 1998 2.1 tdi XM Exclusive is showing a permanent engine fault because the fuel pump isn't shutting off at ign turn-off (electrovalves not fully closing so it runs on for a few seconds). I've been quoted over £2700 + VAT for a Citroen supplied pump. and £800 + VAT for a refurb job. Much as I love my XM (I've had four of 'em) I am not made of money, and I could probably buy another one for these amounts of dosh, I would like to get it fixed, for old time's sake if nothing else. And I don't want to see yet another XM going to the scrappies.

I have been told that it is possible to put a Xantia 1.9 td pump onto an XM and adjust the fuel flow to get the same performance back. I believe a well known Forum Administrator has done it!

Any advice please, especially as I cannot do the job myself - no facilities and no experience.

Garryd

[Hell Razor5543]

Welcome aboard, Garryd. I cannot offer advise as I have no XM experience, but just wait a short while, somebody will come along with do-able assistance.

[red_dwarfers]

Evening! Welcome to the FCF

I'm another Citroen XM 2.1 TD EPIC driver. Not had a lot of hands on experience with the pump but I do know that if the engine is overruning due to the valves not shutting off you can replace them. I'm told the job isn't all that bad if you're a fairly competent car tinkerer. Besides, if the pump is knackered anyway, what have you to loose? There is a link floating around on the forum somewhere to a company who sell a seal kit for a reasonable price.

If you did decide to go down the road of replacing the EPIC pump with one from the 1.9TD, bear in mind that you will loose the trip computer function, there won't be an immobiliser (unless you replace with the later semi electronic 1.9 Bosch (AS3?) in which case you maybe able to keep the immobilizer but I've read of anyone doing this yet) the engine management light will stay put and the characteristics of the engine will change. At the ICCCR last year me and Citroenmad drove my EPIC 2.1 hatch and his Bosch 2.1 estate (though I've a feeling the Bosch fitted to the 2.1 in the XM is different to the Bosch fitted to the 1.9) side by side and we found the EPIC had a much more compressed oomph/power delivery whatever you want to call it. The Bosch on the other hand had a more gradual one, the kick wasn't as much but the power was spread out a bit more.

[CitroJim]

Welcome Garry I'm an XM driver too but fuelled with the other stuff

However I ran a 2.1TD Xantia with the world-famous EPIC pump for a long while...

Kev is right that the Bosch VP20 fitted to the XM 2.1TD is different to the one fitted to the Xantias and similar.

Fitting the later AS3 with electronic timing will be a huge undertaking...

Personally, unless you have a burning desire to run it on vegetables then I'd stick with the EPIC. The EPIC is inherently a very good pump and arguably better than the Bosch for power an economy. Early 2.1TDs had a mechanical Lucas pump and those that run them say they run better and more economically than the Bosch. Kev has described the problem and it's very common with these pumps and is a failure of an ESOS valve. Easily enough fixed as the problem is the failure of the viton tip.

The pump will have to come off the engine to do it but then the job of doing the repairs is not difficult as there's nothing especially critical in the pump and nothing to set up as it's all electronically controlled..

Here's a picture of the pump in bits:



You can see it's really quite simple compared to a mechanical one...

These are the ESOS Valves, showing the duff one..



Have you seen and joined the XM forum yet?

Most of us XM owners are on there too..

Kev, what news of yours?

[red_dwarfers]

I've not had any time to look at it yet, moved it from the drive to the front of the house and left it there. Got back home at 4am on Monday morning! The brakes on the GSA are done now so I have something to potter about in.
Just to fill you in GarryD, my XM lost a lot of power on the way up to the Citroen Car Club National Rally last weekend and the engine started shaking quite a lot under 3000 rpm.

[garryd]

By what you've all said, I'm going off the idea of changing the pump for anything but another EPIC. Or replace the electrovalve: I have seen this suggestion elsewhere - perhaps it was on the XM Forum, - (which I have joined, Jim). Though I got the impression from the discussion there that it was a bit difficult to find a supplier. Their photos (and yours) make it look all very easy. Tho' as I said, I'm not much of a hand at car fixing these days. Once I got rid of my MG BGT Auto I found myself floundering with all the techie stuff they put on cars nowadays

As for alternatives I can see two: Have my pump refurb'd, OR putting up with the running on and the yellow light on the dash. But any opinions about leaving it? What is the worst scenario : bits of the valve flying into the engine perhaps?

The first option is expensive, the second even more so!

garryd

[kenhall1202]

The EPIC pump stop solenoid problem can be simply fixed with one of these kits:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/STOP-POMPE-A-INJ ... EL:FR:1123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have done this repair on my own 2.1TD where the problem was caused by perishing of the rubber tip on the end of the solenoid plunger. No need to replace the solenoid - just the plunger + spring + new O rings, all of which are in the above kit.
The job can be done without removing the pump from the engine - just clean off any external muck before opening the solenoids and have rags strategically placed to catch any dropped screws etc!!

If you search the XM forums there is an EPIC exploded parts diagram somewhere which will help along with Jim's photos.
See http://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... ded#p28707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ken

[garryd]

Thanks for the link, Ken. I will order one, and give it a go.

Regards

garryd

[gadgetgricey]

If its any use, I have a 2.1TD pump (from a Xantia, but presume is the same), if its any use to you.

Working fine when it was on the car. Might even be some pictures on here of it. (goes off to do a search)

Get back to me if I can help.

Cheers

- Dave -

[garryd]

Hi Dave

Sorry to be so late in replying to your offer of a pump from a Xantia. My laptop went into fail-mode last week (it only typed wwwwwwwwww's!!!!) so I've only just been able to access FRF in order to reply to you.
I don't know about the compatibility, but since it is for a 2.1 I guess it must be the same. Just to check, can you send me the type number on the plate under the body? And a pic would help to clarify the swapability issue too, if you have one.

I am trying to buy the (last) Stop Pompe Epic from the fr-ebay site, but having huge problems with getting them to add postage to the invoice. After 4 unsuccessful emails to didier49brigitte, I have just come off uk-ebay raising a dispute procedure with the seller.

Regards

Garry

[gadgetgricey]

Hi there Garry,

Just got it out of the shed and taken the following pics. Kids were using the bench/table, so taken on top of a wheelie bin (sorry)





Was working fine when it was removed from the car, but that was over two years ago. If you think its of any use to you, pm me with what you would be happy with, and I'll work out postage etc.

Cheers

- Dave -