Xantia suspension internal leak?

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cc101
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Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Hi all, strange suspension antics have suddenly appeared, don't think it would be connected to the 10 min mod. Anyway the car has become quite springy and thuds going over potholes, sleeping policemen etc, smooth on undulating surfaces though. To accompany this when the engine is switched off she sinks to the bump stops in under 30 minutes! I expect a serious internal leak somewhere (the car is a sinker but doesn't normally sink this quick).

It still builds up pressure lighting quick in the morning and rises to height within seconds! Manual height lever works in all settings.

I have noticed a louder click from the accumulator, but the interval still remains within specs.

Doseur valve maybe? It's odd that the ride is very springy though?

Cheers, Chris.
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by CitroJim »

Hi Chris, a sinker that sinks in 30 minutes is still very good and that to me does not suggest any internal leak at all...

Now if it sank in 30s then yes...

Or even in 3 minutes...

Has this coincided with it being a bit tropical by any chance?

It may be just the gloriously hot weather reducing the viscosity of the LHM to an extent it's now upset...

Springiness can be a symptom of failing spheres or entrained air..

Wait until it cools down a bit and see how it is...
Jim

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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Thanks Jim you made a very good point there I didn't think of the heat and it's been hovering around 27 degrees the last few days in Cardiff!

I'm going to strip the rear height corrector tomorrow to see what the internals are like (the rear first as it's easier to get at!) I guess there must be a bit of gunk in there seeing that they're 20 years old!

Also when I get out of the car it obviously rises a bit due to my weight but quickly settles with quite a audible whooshing noise, is this fluid returning to the tank?

I'm determined to learn the ins and outs of this specific suspension set up.

Question, would gunked up height correctors effect the ride as I presume fluid is constantly flowing in and out of them and if they're restricted somewhat this would cause a delay in the fluid being pumped to the sphere, hence a 'thud'.

I do love a mystery!

Is there anywhere on the 6 sucker pump that would draw in air apart from the feed pipe?
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by isisalar »

Mine's a different set up being hydractive but I had a distinct thud from mine when turning on the ignition. This vanished when I replaced the anti sink sphere. I quite miss it now.
Probably totally irrelevant to your problem.
Discussing height correctors with an indy recently there was much teeth sucking and mentions of rusted on parts. Tread carefully.
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by Mandrake »

Chris, high ambient temperature will affect the hydraulic system, as Jim suggests the oil thins out, which can cause a sinker to sink faster and will change other characteristics as well for example the damping of suspension movements will reduce slightly making the suspension more lively. 30 minutes is nothing unusual for a sinker to go down either, especially in hot weather. My mums 1993 1.9TD always went down in around 30 minutes.

Not entirely sure what you mean by "springy" ride, can you describe it a bit better ? Check the hose from the tank to the hydraulic pump for air leaks especially at the tank end - when I did your 10 minute mod over the weekend the pipe split during reassembly at the tank spigot but underneath where I couldn't see it until I removed it.

The pump was clicking a lot louder than usual and the system was really struggling to reach operating pressure. Even a small air leak at that hose will undo the good work of your modification. The line to the pump needs to be absolutely 100% air tight and its harder to achieve this than it appears especially when the old rubber gets hard and brittle. High temperatures may cause the hose joint to leak air where it wasn't while cold.

Check the tank for unusual quantities of air bubbles on the surface when running - if you see beer like froth there is probably an air leak on that hose. After your mod I see a small amount of bubbles trapped within the filter and absolutely NO bubbles on the surface of the main tank outside the filter at all, even when raising and lowering the suspension. That's how it should be. :)
Simon

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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Hi Si, the springy feeling is like there is not enough damping especially from the rear, the bizarre thing is that the car passes the bounce test!

I've also noticed that sometimes if you push the front end down it momentarily sticks, push a bit harder and it frees up and is nice and smooth! I'm gonna strip and clean the height correctors to see if there is any sludge restricting the fluid flow.
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by citronut »

the usual failing of the H/C's is not the H/C's them selves but the linkages/turrets on the H/C brackets sticking/partially sized,

as the H/C's them selves very seldom give any trouble at all,

although saying all that if you really feel the urge it wont hurt to carefully dismantle/stip the H/C's and clean them, as they do get a build up of sludge in the bottom of the diaphragms,

you do know on doing the bounce test each corner should float up and down with you pressing/leaning on and off each corner,
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by Mandrake »

cc101 wrote:Hi Si, the springy feeling is like there is not enough damping especially from the rear, the bizarre thing is that the car passes the bounce test!
If its a bouncy feeling that can be air in the oil, it can reduce the damping a lot. I've noticed the damping on mine has really tightened up nicely since I did your mod and also replaced the split hose at the top of the tank. (Not sure if it was already leaking or whether it split when reassembled)

If I had to guess I would say that one (or both) of the ends of your pipe that goes from the tank to the pump is a bit marginal and is leaking air - you've had both ends off when you had your clear hose connected for your video, thus disturbing pipe that has gone hard over the years and moulded to the shape of the spigots. If you don't get the pipe and hose clips back in exactly the same place it can leak. Throw in some sudden unexpected hot weather and an air leak due to a poor fit between pipe and spigot has probably got even worse with the rubber swelling up in the heat.

You might need to cut off and re-terminate the ends of the hose with some new hose, even if it means using a couple of copper joiners to join the old and new pieces.
I've also noticed that sometimes if you push the front end down it momentarily sticks, push a bit harder and it frees up and is nice and smooth! I'm gonna strip and clean the height correctors to see if there is any sludge restricting the fluid flow.
Height correctors can't cause that, and your car isn't Hydractive so it won't be anything to do with that either.

Is there any chance that you rolled the car to its current resting location while the suspension was right up or right down ? If you do that, when you return the suspension to its normal ride height the wheel track widens slightly putting sideways thrust on the tyres and the struts themselves - this increases the static friction of the struts and causes them to bind near the normal height position - when you push it past this they unbind again. If you just roll the car back or forward slightly while at normal height this will release the side thrust on the suspension and it should move freely again.

It can also be caused by jacking the car up to lift the front wheels off the ground and lowering it down again - you have to roll the car forward or back at normal ride height after its back on the ground to release the side thrust from the suspension or the same binding phenomenon can occur.

If its none of these then your front struts probably just need lubricating.
Simon

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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Cheers Si, just cleaned and refitted the rear height corrector, was full of black oil and sediment! Put back on the car and now it's way way too sensitive, push down on the boot and it instantly raises back up, took for a spin and when u accelerate u feel the back squat and raise instantly, feels quite bizarre!

Is this a case of more citrobics needed to bleed the height corrector?

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Chris.
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by Mandrake »

Nothing to worry about. :) If you cleaned out the inside of the height corrector there won't be any oil in the damping passages which is the oil beneath the large disc on each end of the shaft, which flows through the small brass jets off to one side that go to the leakage return line. After a bit of use (a day or so) it will fill up with oil and suddenly slow down, until then it will respond without the usual 5 second delay :lol:
Simon

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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Thanks Si, it is quite bizarre, think I'll leave the front one until the back one calms down!
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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by Mandrake »

Has it calmed down yet ? It usually doesn't take much driving for it to settle down. :)
Simon

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Re: Xantia suspension internal leak?

Post by cc101 »

Yeh it's fine now, will do the front one when I get time. Going to whip the FDV off at some stage, have a very slight leak around there somewhere. Will have to get the seals from somewhere!
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