Head Gasket Failure

Karl · Unread post by **Karl** » 25 Oct 2003, 01:58

Can anyone tell me approx how much garages charge in labour for a head gasket replacement[:(], and can it be done without taking engine out?
Had a water hose go on me and think the headbolts have gone[:(], now I`m getting bubbles in the expansion tank when the engine is running, oil dipstick seems fine so its only going one way.
I know a good moblie mechanic, but if it involves taking the engine out then I suppose he will need a hoist. Thanks in advance

mbunting · Unread post by **mbunting** » 25 Oct 2003, 02:29

I'd check that all of your connections are tight before assuming the worst.
The quick check is as follows:
When the car is STONE COLD, remove the coolant cap to relieve any pressure.
Replace the cap, and start the engine, let it run for 30 seconds.
Stop the engine, and open the radiator cap. If you get pressure, then the chances are the HG is gone, otherwise you might be in luck.
Regarding time, the engine can stay in the car, but the belts need to come off, and the fuel pipes etc. A big job for a first timer ( as I found ), but quite straight forward. The head will probably need skimming at a local engineering works, and it's worth replacing other bits at the same time ( search for other threads ).
All in all, for a pro ( assuming capacity in the engineering works ), it could be done in a day, possibly two. Look for around £100 for parts ( if you replace other bits ), and I would say, around 6 - 8 hours labour.
Mat.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 25 Oct 2003, 04:40

Hi Karl -
Did my son-in-law's BX19 (n/a) this summer. As Mat writes the job is pretty straightforward - but be prepared for any odd problems that delays the work - such as a sheared headbolt.
The specialists skimmers usually strips down the head as standard included in the job/cost - but you may have the head returned with various bits disassembled (like the injectors & glows).
As your engine is turbo fitted, the head itself will be rather heavy with manifolds & turbo fitted.
I simply used wooden balks (2 as a triangle support - 1 as a hoist/torque bar) to twist/lift off the head. Once you're ready for head removal - the starter may be cranked briefly breaking the old HG.

oilyspanner · Unread post by **oilyspanner** » 26 Oct 2003, 17:14

I do lots of head gaskets on Xantias/Bxs etc
The worst part is getting the exhaust and inlet manifold bolts out,thus leaving the turbo etc in place, other points to note are using a later "metal" head gasket, new bolts and getting the thing skimmed.
Have fun
Stewart

Karl · Unread post by **Karl** » 26 Oct 2003, 23:17

OK I`ve got new metal gasket, headbolts, cylinder head gasket set. Have I missed anything? Due to me working most of the week I have to find a good garage to do the work, anyone know what a reasonable cost in labour is( including having the head skimmed)?
Also the coolant has turned brown slushy and have tried opening the drain valve at the bottom of the radiator and nothing comes out. I want to at least flush the system before taking it to the garage, will this complicate things? I want to try to flush this out beforehand, so that I fell bit better if I have to drive it there.

oilyspanner · Unread post by **oilyspanner** » 27 Oct 2003, 00:34

Skimming appears to cost between £20-£35 the estimated 6 to eight hours is about right. rate depends on who and where I suppose. If you take the drain plug out of the rad you could try tentatively poking a bit of wire in there, or as its pressurising put the radiator cap on and fire her up!
Stewart

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 27 Oct 2003, 00:46

Have you just turned the drain plug or have you turned and pulled it aswell, IIRC it has to be pulled open before anything will show.
Dave

Karl · Unread post by **Karl** » 27 Oct 2003, 01:17

I think I just turned it; it worked the last time. I think you may be right Dave I try pulling it tommorrow morning.

Karl · Unread post by **Karl** » 27 Oct 2003, 01:35

OK couldn`t wait just tried it in the dark wigging the plug and its draining. Thanks Dave feel a bit better now.

louis1 · Unread post by **louis1** » 27 Oct 2003, 04:28

Just a quick question. Is the coolent system supposed to build up pressure? only i have a freind whos car does not build any pressure up at all even after a good thrasing, undo the cap and no pressure at all.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 27 Oct 2003, 13:01

Yes, the cooling system should be under pressure when it is hot. The cap is rated to relieve at about 1 bar gauge, which means the temperature can go up to about 120°C before it boils. As the cooling system heats up the water expands, and compresses the gas in the expansion tank, causing the system to be under pressure. If there is no apparent pressure then either there is a leak in the system, or the cap is knackered and not holding pressure - I'd try a new cap as it's only a few quid!
Richard

tomsheppard · Unread post by **tomsheppard** » 28 Oct 2003, 02:44

The advice about turning the engine on the starter to break the hg joint will break a lot more besides if the cam belt is disconnected before you do! A straight edge on the head will tell if it needs skimming, often it doesn't, saving time and money. Decoke everything while you are in there and clean out the bolt threads very thoroughly. You can do it yourself in a weekend with the help of this site and a manual. I would counsel you to take the radiator out and have it flushed. (I used the bath and the shower hose from end to end and then filled the rad looking for cold spots) This is because the rad silting up is often the root cause of the head gasket failure. Good luck!

Karl · Unread post by **Karl** » 03 Nov 2003, 19:44

Guys
Getting the head skimmed this week, is it best to use a metal gasket?

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 03 Nov 2003, 20:13

[:p] Tom [:p]
You only break the headgasket with cambelt on - and on engines with solid cylinder bores - unless you WANT to replace more parts [:D]

Unread post by **Jon** » 04 Nov 2003, 02:33

Karl,
Re Metal Head Gaskets.
These folded metal ("sandwich") gaskets are now generally supplied by Citroen and Peugeot Dealers.
I've only fitted one once about 4 years ago on a ZX TD with a failed gasket and suspect head. After I fitted the thing, together with new head bolts torqued down to the correct figure, and put the thing back together, it was actually worse in terms of pressurising coolant than it was before I started!!
I generally go for the (at the time of vehicle manufacture) original Meillor head gasket of traditional construction which seems far more tolerant of a slightly iffy head than the new Metal gaskets.
Doubtless others will have a point of view on this.
On my current ZX I "whipped off the head" (OK I was lying it took ages) due to a bad oil leak down the back of the block at 67,000 miles when I got the car, replaced with a 3 notch Meillor Gasket (did not skim the head or even touch it apart from cleaning) and its still hanging in there at 125,700 miles tonight without any leaking or coolant pressurisation.
The Sandwich gaskets work well with a totally flat head and block but are poor otherwise.
OK, I've started Contraversy Corner again tonight.