Xantia or XM as a long-term car

[Old-Guy]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, we are looking for a long-term replacement for the green Xantia 1.9 sx estate. The recently acquired blue VSX is fairly high mileage (191k) and the body is a bit battered. Having sampled the 2.1s effortless power and given its reputed frugality, I'd be tempted by another, tidier one. Jim has suggested an XM.

Whatever we choose, it would have to be an estate in exceptional condition with low miles. It won't be a daily car in the sense that we don't/won't need to use a car every day. We might even buy a cheap little runabout, so the big car doesn't do lots of short journeys, nor gets attacked by supermarket trolleys.

So, given that it must reasonably be expected to last another 6-10 years, I don't want a project, I HATE doing bodywork, it would be well-maintained, and I'm not frightened by hydraulics:

• Xantia (diesel)
  • S1 or S2
    • 1.9
      90 HDi
      110 HDi
    Sunroof or not (rot?)
  XM (2.1)
  pros and cons
  thirst

Please discuss

[rabenson]

Whichever, I'd go for the 110 HDI - quicker and more frugal than the 90 HDI. And built to last!

[Mandrake]

As much as I love the Xantia, I honestly don't think that any Xantia you buy now unless absolutely pristine and well cared for is going to be a daily driver for another 6-10 years! Even a 2001 model would be 22 years old by then!

Getting replacement parts is already becoming difficult in 2013 let alone 2023....

[Peter.N.]

I have been running 2.1 Manual XM estates as my main car for over 15 years and I don't think they have an equal. Although I still have one XM my son uses it most of the time so I have a C5 and a 406 both Hdi. The main advantage is economy although the XM comes a close second, on my annual trips to the north of Scotland my XMs have averaged 50-55mpg the Hdi's just over 60 mpg but I do drive very gently. The 2.1 in my experience is better on fuel than the 1.9 and it drives better than the Hdi in that it pulls much more smoothly from low revs allowing you to drive down to about 1000rpm which of course aids economy as well as saving gear changes, the Hdi will pull from low revs but not as smoothly as the XM.

I have had to scrap a couple of XM's, one because of rot and the other an accident but I can confirm that they are very durable, one I scrapped last year having covered about 300,000 miles, the engines and gearboxes are bombproof (unless you have an auto), the bodies can be preserved by spraying the underside with oil every year and filling the sills and other cavities with oil. Their only real Achilles heel is the head gasket, they usually go at about 150,000 miles so bear that in mind when buying, if you can find one that is. Once replaced they will go on for at least another 150k or probably more as the laminated steel gaskets they supply now seem much tougher

I covered something like 300,000 miles in the XMs and I don't think they can be beaten for their combination of comfort, ride, space and durability, previous to these I ran 2.5 DTR CX Safari's and they were even better, the C5 is good but not as good as the XM.

Peter

[spider]

I think the final drive ratio is a bit higher on a 2.1 vs a 1.9 XUD based unit which would also aid economy. HDi 110 type transmission I think (cable rather than rod control)

Although I've only 406's to compare the 2.1 is very powerful and more relaxed than the 1.9 unit and quite economical too. Interesting to note they did not offer a 2.1 auto in the 406 only Citroen models (exception being an early 605)

Water pumps can be a pig on the 2.1 not difficult to do just a long job given its "housing" arrangement. The electronic injection pump can be expensive although problems are rare and I think spares are probably findable these days with some internet searching.

I've never done a headgasket on one, I heard the unit has to be dropped out but I do not see that happening it should be possible in situ. I heard its difficult to do, as I say I've not done one, it does not *look* much more difficult to do although I bet there are surprises.

If for me a choice of a 1.9 or 2.1 I'd go for a good 2.1, the XUD11 is a brilliant engine shame they replaced it with the HDi 110 really which is OK but as Peter said does not quite have quite the same torque "spread". I guess also I appreciate the ability to when desired use its power, the HDi's feel powerful but lack the on / off which is sometimes fun.

[sandybx]

Dear Guy,
Xantia,s and XM,s, both are lovely looking Citroens Guy, The XM,s would definately get my vote Guy
Good luck with your decision Guy, just remember don,t rush into anything, search around, road test alot of new cars and enjoy the time and the experience and most importantly buy someting that was a good as your car that broke-down in France
Vince,

[Peter.N.]

You can do a head gasket in situ on the 2.1 XM, I have done one but its a fiddly job. Only the late ones had the EPIC pump, up to January 96 they had the Bosch mechanical pump, in fact thee last three I had were registered in Jan 96 and had the same reg letters : N---YBL, they not only had the last fully mechanical pump but most of the later ones were auto.

Peter

[Old-Guy]

As much as I love the Xantia, I honestly don't think that any Xantia you buy now unless absolutely pristine and well cared for is going to be a daily driver for another 6-10 years! Even a 2001 model would be 22 years old by then!

Getting replacement parts is already becoming difficult in 2013 let alone 2023....

"Absolutely pristine and well cared for..." and with a low mileage, is exactly what I'm looking for.

[red_dwarfers]

Personally I reckon a Diesel Xantia of some description is going to be better for running well in to the future. They are a lot more plentiful here and around the world than XMs for a start. Looking at How Many Left, Xantias are coming in at well over 12k, XM's are 10% of that figure.

As an aside, if anyone wants to enjoy XM ownership, now is the time to do it. Prices are sensible and parts are still relatively easy and reasonably cheap to get hold of. It won't be long before XMs go the way of the GS/As. Back in the day they were everywhere (I'm told!) and loads of people had a soft spot for them but now there are only just over 100 on SORN and taxed. The XM has one heck of a lot more scope for things to go pear shaped compared to the G and I wouldn't be surprised if they start having to be stashed away or scrapped due to lack of parts in 10-15 years time. Hopefully though by that time there will be another Chevronics, 2CV City etc who will invest. Could be a difficult job mind...all those engine and spec variations and funny little bits and pieces.

[KP]

To be honest the HDi90 isn't that bad. It's not fast but I'm getting at least 700miles from a tank (proper sums of 49mpg+) with lots of short 5-15mile trips in the c5 so don't rule it out.

If it were me I'd go for a mechanical 2.1 xm estate(rare as gold crap!) or 1.9td xantia estate and stick good leather in it. The less electrical things you have to worry about the better and the simpler engines are easier to repair and can take some real crappy fuel as well which helps reduce running costs massively

There are some nice low mileage C5 HDi exclusives about though which would be not to dissimilar in price terms

[addo]

Road salt.

[taffy]

if i could have a xantia estate or xm estate...
either...
all the engines are good really but 1.9td 2.0 hdi 90/110 are about the most reliable engines on the road today..
if you know what ur doing and are a confident mechanic just go with ur heart...one of them must have a soft spot
just to add the 2.1 is a brill engine too...lots of torque

[CitroJim]

As an aside, if anyone wants to enjoy XM ownership, now is the time to do it. Prices are sensible and parts are still relatively easy and reasonably cheap to get hold of. It won't be long before XMs go the way of the GS/As. Back in the day they were everywhere (I'm told!) and loads of people had a soft spot for them but now there are only just over 100 on SORN and taxed. The XM has one heck of a lot more scope for things to go pear shaped compared to the G and I wouldn't be surprised if they start having to be stashed away or scrapped due to lack of parts in 10-15 years time. Hopefully though by that time there will be another Chevronics, 2CV City etc who will invest. Could be a difficult job mind...all those engine and spec variations and funny little bits and pieces.

Yep, agreed on all points

For me the XM is the car of choice for long trips and I'd not be without it. the thing is sublime. It's not a daily driver for me although plenty still do use them daily and as their only car. They do need looking after in their teenage years but then so does a Xantia.

And don't run away with the idea an XM is a big Xantia. It's not. It's a totally different car that shares a very few mechanical parts with the Xantia. That's it.

[addo]

The problems with either are mainly in two areas as I see it:

1. Upkeep - if you desire to preserve the car at 100% functionality and in good appearance, it's getting ever harder to source all the bits that crop up as required, other than as used parts.
2. Other people - I could write off one car a week consistently in "not at fault" collisions. It's such a mission to stay out the way of plonkers, I am really beginning to question the merits of having other than a D9 dozer...

[Stunned Monkey]

The problem with a low mileage pristine well looked after Xantia Estate is finding one someone is prepared to part with! Find something else which offers the same refinement, reliability, performance, economy etc etc etc.

I had old faithful from 21k and new faithful has carried me for 10k now. 110HDi all day in my opinion.