Leaky HP Pump
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Leaky HP Pump
Can some 'bod' take a look at this please?
Jim probably holds the answer to this one?
Is this mincemeat or is it easily repairable? I have a spare pump so no big deal but if tweaking that flange nut up can do the job then it will save me taking it off!
http://goo.gl/5nVQH" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jim probably holds the answer to this one?
Is this mincemeat or is it easily repairable? I have a spare pump so no big deal but if tweaking that flange nut up can do the job then it will save me taking it off!
http://goo.gl/5nVQH" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Leaky HP Pump
Tweaking the nut tighter won't help, it needs new o-rings under the two large hex head bolts. I've just done mine recently. The o-rings are quite cheap and the job is easy if you take the pump off the engine!
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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- Donor 2023
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- Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 00:21
- Location: Nottingham - UK
- My Cars: 2013 Peugeot 3008 Allure 1.6HDi - FD63 FWA VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD S1 - M728 GDL VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new) - x 80
Re: Leaky HP Pump
Hi Mandrake
It's not actually leaking from the hexagonal blanking plugs so would that make a difference?
It's not actually leaking from the hexagonal blanking plugs so would that make a difference?
Re: Leaky HP Pump
According to your video it is ? The oil is pulsing around the perimeter of the hex plug. That's where the o-ring is.
Item 1 at the top on the following diagram:
The arrows show all the places a pump can leak from but its most often one or both of the black o-rings under the hex head bolts.
Item 1 at the top on the following diagram:
The arrows show all the places a pump can leak from but its most often one or both of the black o-rings under the hex head bolts.
Last edited by Mandrake on 08 Jun 2013, 07:04, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- CitroJim
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Re: Leaky HP Pump
Rog, as Simon says. Easy job. Very messy though... Use lots of rags to catch the LHM and be careful of the spring and ball..
Basically, undo the pipe and move out of the way, undo the 19mm hex and renew the O ring on it...
It's Item 5 in the piccy below..
Basically, undo the pipe and move out of the way, undo the 19mm hex and renew the O ring on it...
It's Item 5 in the piccy below..
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Re: Leaky HP Pump
Only messy if you forget step 0 - depressurise the hydraulic system eh Jim ?
How do you refit the plug in situ with it on a 45 degree angle ? I would have thought that the spring would lean out of position and not locate properly in the recess in the plug without the pump being rotated for the piston to be vertically up.
Also I would not recommend replacing the one o-ring by itself, the other one which is facing nearly downwards on the car will be about to let go too. For this reason I remove the pump from the car so each piston plug can be reassembled when facing directly up while held in a vice.
Other than on the V6 (where its a nightmare ) getting the pump out isn't really that hard and gives a chance to inspect it for other problems and clean up the mess of oil below it that usually finds its way into the alternator...
How do you refit the plug in situ with it on a 45 degree angle ? I would have thought that the spring would lean out of position and not locate properly in the recess in the plug without the pump being rotated for the piston to be vertically up.
Also I would not recommend replacing the one o-ring by itself, the other one which is facing nearly downwards on the car will be about to let go too. For this reason I remove the pump from the car so each piston plug can be reassembled when facing directly up while held in a vice.
Other than on the V6 (where its a nightmare ) getting the pump out isn't really that hard and gives a chance to inspect it for other problems and clean up the mess of oil below it that usually finds its way into the alternator...
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- CitroJim
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Re: Leaky HP Pump
Yes, that's true Simon, very true... I never bother...Mandrake wrote:Only messy if you forget step 0 - depressurise the hydraulic system eh Jim ?
Easier on a V6 XM than a V6 Xantia amazingly...Mandrake wrote: Other than on the V6 (where its a nightmare ) getting the pump out isn't really that hard and gives a chance to inspect it for other problems and clean up the mess of oil below it that usually finds its way into the alternator...
LHM generally is not good for alternators so it is a good idea to give it a good clean if it's got a bit covered in LHM.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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- Donor 2023
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1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
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1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
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1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new) - x 80
Re: Leaky HP Pump
Cheers Simon and Jim.
I thought you meant the hex plugs that require Item 4. Simon referred to TWO and they have hex key heads (as in Allen Key). I did say blanking plugs in my first reply so just miscommunication between us all.
Drawings are good (for an architect). I understand them and they leave no doubt.
Brilliant! Nice cheap repair then. At the moment, this 'particular' Xantia is clicking every 4 - 4.8 seconds.
Any idea on torque values for the actually main hex through-bolts? 40lb ft?
I thought you meant the hex plugs that require Item 4. Simon referred to TWO and they have hex key heads (as in Allen Key). I did say blanking plugs in my first reply so just miscommunication between us all.
Drawings are good (for an architect). I understand them and they leave no doubt.
Brilliant! Nice cheap repair then. At the moment, this 'particular' Xantia is clicking every 4 - 4.8 seconds.
Any idea on torque values for the actually main hex through-bolts? 40lb ft?
Re: Leaky HP Pump
No I meant hex as in a normal 8 sided bolt head, and yes there are two of them, each with a seal.Rhothgar wrote:Cheers Simon and Jim.
I thought you meant the hex plugs that require Item 4. Simon referred to TWO and they have hex key heads (as in Allen Key). I did say blanking plugs in my first reply so just miscommunication between us all.
The bottom item 1 in my picture is the power steering pistons, (6 of them) they are torx drive not Allen keys, hence your confusion. Fortunately they never seem to leak as it doesn't seem to be possible to undo them with anything less than a rattle gun!
This leak won't have any bearing on the click rate, you probably just need a new accumulator sphere fitting.
Drawings are good (for an architect). I understand them and they leave no doubt.
Brilliant! Nice cheap repair then. At the moment, this 'particular' Xantia is clicking every 4 - 4.8 seconds.
No idea sorry, I've never owned a torque wrench...Any idea on torque values for the actually main hex through-bolts? 40lb ft?
Last edited by Mandrake on 08 Jun 2013, 09:31, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Leaky HP Pump
If the accumulator sphere is on its' way out (and the click rate suggests it is, as does Simon), I would also replace the anti-sink sphere as well. This one does not give any indication it is on the way out, other than a pressure test.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
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Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
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Re: Leaky HP Pump
Torque required is moderately tight Roger. Not stupid tight, not loose, just past 'nipped' up...
In other words, tightened sensibly...
I echo James's comments about accumulator spheres.
Note you’ll need a good 12mm flare nut spanner for the pipe union as they can be silly tight but again they don't need to be. 'Just nipped up' is fine.
In other words, tightened sensibly...
I echo James's comments about accumulator spheres.
Note you’ll need a good 12mm flare nut spanner for the pipe union as they can be silly tight but again they don't need to be. 'Just nipped up' is fine.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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- Donor 2023
- Posts: 1803
- Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 00:21
- Location: Nottingham - UK
- My Cars: 2013 Peugeot 3008 Allure 1.6HDi - FD63 FWA VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD S1 - M728 GDL VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new) - x 80
Re: Leaky HP Pump
Thanks guys again.
I had a sense they were torx but couldn't see them clearly in the vid and couldn't be bothered to wak outside to check that at that time of night. I had had a look on the serivce.citroen site and they do so as allen on there. Memory test failed!
I thought that the accumulator may have gone but if the system is leaking, as it is, would that not allow full and adequate pressure to build up? Hence my thinking that that might kill two birds with one stone.
It's not a problem if it needs an acculumulator. All the other spheres are done so a couple of grey ones from Citroen will complete the setup.
I had a sense they were torx but couldn't see them clearly in the vid and couldn't be bothered to wak outside to check that at that time of night. I had had a look on the serivce.citroen site and they do so as allen on there. Memory test failed!
I thought that the accumulator may have gone but if the system is leaking, as it is, would that not allow full and adequate pressure to build up? Hence my thinking that that might kill two birds with one stone.
It's not a problem if it needs an acculumulator. All the other spheres are done so a couple of grey ones from Citroen will complete the setup.
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Re: Leaky HP Pump
Simon suggested the acc sphere first (I did think about it, but was uncertain if the leak would cause the same click, which is why I didn't post it). I just added the bit about the anti-sink sphere as it doesn't tell you it's failing.
Grey spheres?
Grey spheres?
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Re: Leaky HP Pump
It wouldn't stop the pressure building up unless there was a high pressure stream of oil coming out... However I suspect it might allow ingress of air into the pump on the opposite stroke of the piston.. Since I had my pump out and replaced the seals a month ago the intermitent harsh ride that the car had previously had is largely gone...Rhothgar wrote: I thought that the accumulator may have gone but if the system is leaking, as it is, would that not allow full and adequate pressure to build up? Hence my thinking that that might kill two birds with one stone.
Whether it was the seals or whether removing and refitting the rubber inlet hose did the trick I'm not sure, but there is a definite improvement in consistency and quality of the ride.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive