Urgent - Leaking banjo on Xantia V6 4HP20 (now fixed)

[Mandrake]

Hi guys, changing the oil on my gearbox and found the banjo is leaking badly

I check the level on the dipstick before draining and it was in the normal range.

What should I do ? My plan was to disconnect the banjo while the sump is empty and reanneal the copper washers with a flame, will this work ?

Very urgent as I'm doing the job at the car park of our old flat where we no longer live so I don't want the car getting stranded here

[Xaccers]

Have a look here
https://www.google.com/search?q=citroji ... orum.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mandrake]

Update: looks like I am stranded

They're aluminium washers and one is split in half and the other one badly corroded.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qelpiw9kjcx0p ... 6%20PM.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any ideas guys ? The worst of it is I left my wallet behind so I can't even get a taxi home or try anywhere for washers, although I'm not sure who would have something...

[Mandrake]

Back home again, I had to ditch the car and get a taxi, so its now stranded at our old address.

The next problem is where to get replacements, and as soon as possible as we're supposed to vacate the old address on Tuesday. Citroen ? I'm guessing being a long weekend I wouldn't get them until late in the week. Hardware stores ? eBay ? Not sure where to try and with no car finding them will be more difficult.

[Hell Razor5543]

Simon, do you have ANY washers that are a close fit? Type doesn't matter (so long as they can handle the heat), even fibre washers would do. All they need to do is last long enough to get you home, where you can then do a proper job.

My Grandfather was in WWII, and a story he told was of a vehicle that got stranded in the desert with a puncture. When the driver replaced the wheel, he found that he had lost the wheel nuts. He then improvised; he took one nut off each of the other wheels, and fitted them onto the wheel which he had lost the nuts for. He then carefully drove back to base (and got some more wheel nuts), but there is one important point; he got back.

EDIT, just seen that YOU have got home, even if the Xantia hasn't (yet). However, my point still stands. Get any washers that are a close enough fit to allow you to nurse her to your new home.

EDIT (again) there is a B&Q in Coatbridge that does various washers (including fibre ones). Their address is on this webpage;

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/templates ... eId=COB753" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck.

[Mandrake]

No, I don't have any washers even remotely similar in size and shape. I thought they had to be soft aluminium or copper or they would leak ?

The problem with a temporary fix with the wrong washers is that I have the sump drained at the moment with new oil ready to go in, to change the washers later without loosing too much oil I would have to drain the sump again (?) which means topping up the oil again, and I have no flat level ground at the new address to check the oil level, hence the reason I was doing it at the old address in the first place, just before we finished moving out.

One small silver lining - the oil I drained out today is exactly the same colour and cleanliness as the last oil I drained out 6 months ago after the last of my 4 in a row oil changes, so the oil has not burnt or deteriorated visibly in the last 6 months

[Hell Razor5543]

Simon, if you read the following post, it gives you sizes of the washers, and it also shows that when you change the washers (for the correct ones) you won't have a massive spillage to deal with, just what is in the pipe at the time;

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=27268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If they can handle the heat for long enough, I cannot see why the fibre washers would leak. Yes, they are NOT suitable for long term usage in the banjo joint, but I would be surprised if they couldn't get you home. The advantage is that if they are too big, you can (carefully!) trim them down to size.

[CitroJim]

Simon, sorry to hear this. James's idea of fibre washers may be OK but given there's 18 bars behind them perhaps they might be marginal..

Much better is to get yourself to Halfrauds and pick up a set of their assorted copper washers. In there is ones just the size yuo need but...

Firstly they're too hard and must be annealed before use and secondly you'll be very lucky even then to get them absolutely oil-tight.. However they'll do until you can get the pukka ally ones from a Stealer.. You can successfully anneal them using a gas ring. Heat them red-hot and let them cool...

Part number is 2219 12 and they come singly. Pick up four so you have spares as they do not live long in a corrosive world..

I always hold a few spares and I recommend all V6 owners do the same thing.

I once knew of a person who toasted his box because of them. A small leak from the banjo pumped the box dry in 150 miles...

[Hell Razor5543]

I didn't know about that pressure level. 270psi! ouch.

Given the urgency of the situation, I was trying to come up with a way for Simon to get her home where he was able to work on her without causing any inconvenience to himself or others.

[Old-Guy]

Apologies for contradicting you Jim: to anneal copper, heat to cherry red heat and quench in cold water (the opposite to steel).

The easiest way is to hang the washer on the end of a stout piece of steel fence wire or similar and heat with a blow torch immediately above a bowl/bucket of cold water. As soon as the washer (and end of the wire) is dull red-hot, tip the washer off the wire (while still in the torch flame) into the water. It's essential that the washer is still red-hot when it hits the water. At one time when an apprentice, I spent hours annealing copper washers for re-use.

If you don't believe me, try it with a bit of copper wire from a scrap of 2.5mm sq mains cable.

[Xaccers]

Copper can also be left to cool slowly. Though dropping it in water is more fun

[CitroJim]

Apologies for contradicting you Jim: to anneal copper, heat to cherry red heat and quench in cold water (the opposite to steel).

Never a problem, always correct an error in any post, especially mine!

Maybe that's why mine always leak then Guy Getting my annealing method round the wrong way

[Mandrake]

Simon, sorry to hear this. James's idea of fibre washers may be OK but given there's 18 bars behind them perhaps they might be marginal..

Much better is to get yourself to Halfrauds and pick up a set of their assorted copper washers. In there is ones just the size yuo need but...

I had a quick look at the halfords copper washer pack and there doesn't appear to be one that is the correct size:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... ogId=10151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to a post of yours from a few years ago the OD is 18mm, ID is 14mm and thickness 1.5mm, so none are near that. You also comment in your old post that the outside diameter is critical because it fits inside a recess ?

Firstly they're too hard and must be annealed before use and secondly you'll be very lucky even then to get them absolutely oil-tight.. However they'll do until you can get the pukka ally ones from a Stealer.. You can successfully anneal them using a gas ring. Heat them red-hot and let them cool...

I've got both a small gas soldering iron and also a very powerful gas blow torch that I've used for unfreezing rusted tie rod ends, so heating a copper washer red hot is no trouble.

Given what you've said though I think I might just have to put up with no car for a few days and order the correct seals from Citroen and get a few spares!! At £2 each I'll get at least 4, maybe 6. It's extremely inconvenient and at the worst possible time but I don't think I have much of a choice.

I once knew of a person who toasted his box because of them. A small leak from the banjo pumped the box dry in 150 miles...

Last time I looked in the wheel arch which must have been only a month or so ago the gearbox was dry, we have done a lot of driving lately though with moving house etc, it must have only just sprung a leak as the oil level was only just below half way between the two marks yet it was all over the place and dripping down on the ground. It was a complete fluke that I decided to change the oil today...

[CitroJim]

I had a quick look at the halfords copper washer pack and there doesn't appear to be one that is the correct size:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... ogId=10151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Simon, believe me there is a washer in that kit that will do. The OD is a bit bigger but not too big. I know as I used two for a while.. I have double-checked we are looking at the same Halfrauds kit and I've laid a candidate washer from that kit against a pukka one and despite there being a recess they'll fit - trust me! The pukka ones are a lot smaller than the banjo bolt head and the recess I speak of has plenty of spare room...

It was a complete fluke that I decided to change the oil today...

It was a bloody good job you did!

[Hell Razor5543]

I think that these MIGHT do the job, if the 14mm related to the inner diameter;

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255228" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT, It looks like a lot of people want to get your V6 back on the road again, Simon! I wondered why the Internet was slowing down, but then I saw how much of a load was down to the FCF!

Alright, I'm joking, but we do want you to be mobile again ASAFP (the F stands for Feasibly, I promise!).