Xantia let me down big time today... And it's happened again

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Xantia let me down big time today... And it's happened again

Post by Chlorate »

Of all the times it could do it, it chose to throw a hissy just as I was setting off home to attend a funeral tomorrow...

So the car was driving fine, had been all week, suddenly the engine management light came on and power cut.

Conveniently it happened within a mile of my front door (and not, say half way up the A38 on the way home from work or indeed 50 miles down the M1) also conveniently it happened right outside a Citroen specialist (Woodlinkin Citroen if anyone has heard of them). Unfortunately he was just locking up for the day and has a fully booked day tomorrow.
Going to drag the sorry thing in there at 8:30 to have a Lexia jammed into it, however it's unlikely that they'll be able to take the work on - but at least I have the day off work tomorrow...

I'm thinking that it's some kind of sensor issue since it runs ok (apart from being throttled by the ECU of course).

Would anyone know anything silly that I could try tonight (disconnect this, clean that, hit the other with a hammer) in some hope of getting back on the road?

Thanks,

Alex
Last edited by Chlorate on 16 May 2013, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

Just had a bit of a poke around...

I'm drawn to the fuel filter housing, the car has been leaking a small amount of diesel from under the bonnet for a little while, on closer inspection it appears to be coming from the fuel filter - the unions joining with it are rather mucky and there's fuel pooling on the engine just there.
I also have no idea when the last time the filter was changed, and I have been using Sainsburys Taste the Difference fuel for a few weeks. :roll:
From what I can see the injection pump itself seems ok. No obvious leaks coming from that (thankfully).
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

Hi Alex,

Just for info, its not an injection pump, its the Fuel Rail Pressureiser pump.. :-D

I had twice on my HDi the LOWER fuel pipe clip connection simply pop off the filter, this enabled fuel to pour down the engine, though it didn't loose pressure, a fuel leak also wont throw the ECU light on...

The first likey thing I can prehaps sugest if the car still starts and runs and sounds fine is the turbo Wastegate control electro valve. Being an exclusive, she a 110bhp, and theres TWO to the left of the engine, right of the drivers sphere.

Im completely guessing here, but it could be faulty in one of two ways. Its either holding the wastegate closed, and allowing FULL boost to the engine, the ECU senses this throws the Engine Light on and goes into limp home mode.. OR, its not working and the wastegate is fully open not allowing any boost into the engine...

This is of course depending if the car starts and idles and sounds puuurrrrfectly fine... The above shows on driving.

The above can be a "Self Cancel" problem in that after a switch off it sometimes clears untill the ECU sees too much boost again.

The system works in reverse on the wastegate. HDi wastegates are normally open when at engine off, when the system vaccum builds it closes the wastegate via the electro valve and when ECU set Max boost is reached it switch;s the vaccuum to electrovalve waste, thus opening the wastegate and preventing overboost.

Is this is the case, try swapping the two valves, the other controls the EGR valve and operates the same way, so IF its still in working order should work the turbo.. The EGR has no sensors etc so the ECU doesn;t know if it works or not, so it doesn't matter if the EGR's electro valve works or not... :shock: :shock: did I say that right.. :-D
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

citroenxm wrote: Just for info, its not an injection pump, its the Fuel Rail Pressureiser pump.. :-D
Good point, I guess I'm longing for my XUD powered ZX in this case...

That does sound like a good theory, the car starts as usual, idles and drives fine apart from the noticeable lack of power.

I'll go have a looksee.

Thanks
Alex

EDIT:

I switched over the connectors and vacuum hoses, and the problem persists.
Although I do notice the turbo isn't spooling up...
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

Ahhh, there you are Alex you have confirmed.. if the car still drives then theres a very good chance its that..

Another thing to do to check, open the bonnet, the Throttle is over between the LHM tank and air intake pipe, pull on the throttle cable to rev the engine, the intercooler pipe infront of the rad should Expand as the turbo wizzes up, HOWEVER.. if the turbo is not blowing then the intercooler pipe will "Pinch" as the engine sucks more air then the turbo is supplying...

This will be one of those valves.. :wink: :wink:
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

Got in there with an edit before you replied!
Any chance both electrovalves are knackered?

Slightly concerned that it doesn't sound like it's producing any boost..I wouldn't have thought the turbo would have simply given up the ghost without warning?
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

Hi Alex..

RE: Electrovalves, YES they can both be buggered, as I said, theres No way of telling if the EGR one is dead as theres no sensors on the cuircuit to tell you..

Turbo Dieing: No, they dont normally just "Die" like that! They useually start making noises, then can still deliver then..

The valves are NOT expensive..

THIS LITTLE bugger should see you right as rain..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

IIRC didn't you help somebody at the X Rally with a similar problem and find both valves had failed (as well as a somewhat religious exhaust)? I remember the exhaust, and I have never seen that much light through anything less than chicken wire!
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

Sounds like a plan to me, I'm going to bring it down to that Citroen indie tomorrow morning anyway.
Even if he won't stick a Lexia on it for cheap as free I can probably get a replacement electrovalve through him pretty quickly and take a punt on that.

Many many thanks.
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:IIRC didn't you help somebody at the X Rally with a similar problem and find both valves had failed (as well as a somewhat religious exhaust)? I remember the exhaust, and I have never seen that much light through anything less than chicken wire!
Yes Alistar I did, and I got feed back from them too!!

his is the same problem here, im sure of it.. It cant really be much else.. Theres not a lot that goes wrong with the HDi really!
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

citroenxm wrote:Theres not a lot that goes wrong with the HDi really!
For one of these new fangled electronic jobs they seem pretty good.

One other thing that's been suggested is a split turbo hose and the ECU is holding the wastegate open to stop the thing over-spinning.
Hoses under the bonnet look in good shape, although there's a bit of oil and fuel leakage going on so I'll have a peek under the car (properly supported) tomorrow morning to see if all is well around the back....
Hopefully it will have stopped raining by then :evil:
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

Ahhhh that's the other two checks . the small intermediate rubber connecting hose from the turbo outlet to intercooler pipe under the gearbox and i have also had the rubber intercooler pipe split right at the inlet manifold this was shown by oil mess all over the top of the thermostat housing
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1758
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 00:21
Location: Nottingham - UK
My Cars: 2013 Peugeot 3008 Allure 1.6HDi - FD63 FWA VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD S1 - M728 GDL VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
x 78

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Rhothgar »

Apparently Manuel at Woodlinkin is a decent guy. Never had any dealings with him myself. If no joy or you are looking at a silly bill from him, a neighbour of mine is into Citroens and as a little back street hut in Nottingham. He's only £25 an hour!

Just remember when you see Manuel tomorrow, "Don't mention the war!"
Chlorate
Posts: 612
Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 00:55
Location: Wiltshire
My Cars:

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by Chlorate »

All done, it was the electrovalve after all.

I left it with them this morning with hopes that they'd have a look at it in time for me to get back for the wake...I had told them what I suspected the problem was, but was met with the usual shrugging of shoulders followed by "that could be caused by anything" etc etc. :roll:

Unfortunately they didn't get to it until 4pm.

Oh well, merde happens I guess as the French don't say.

Woodlinkin Citroen seems to be a decent garage, they charged me £60+vat for the job so probably ~£30/hour for labour.

Many thanks once again for all the help.
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Xantia let me down big time today...

Post by citroenxm »

:-D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Post Reply