Xantia Brakes

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Dmitry
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Xantia Brakes

Post by Dmitry »

Hi,

I wonder if someone has experienced a problem with restoring the brake function after pipes replacing in the front suspension of Citroen Xantia 2HDi (2001)?
I would greatly appreciate your advise on this matter.

I do not do it myself. I bought the car to a HiQ garage but they do not know how to get the brakes back after fitting new hydraulic pipes. This problem was discussed with a Citroen professional who has been working for a Citroen garage for 15 years and he suggested to replaced the high pressure hydraulic pump, however this did not solve the problem. The HiQ mechanic is very inexperienced in Citroens and does not have a protocol to bleed the braking system. The only hope I have is to get a feedback from the forum

Thanks,
Dmitry
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by xantia_v6 »

I think you need to give more details of exactly what work was done, and what is the problem with the brakes?
After the accumulator, there is not much in common between the 2 systems.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by myglaren »

Dmitry has been having difficulty posting.
I had to log in as him and the first post is a cut and paste from an email to me.

We have discussed this by email but he needs as much up to date information as possible to pass on to the mechanic who is attempting to get the brakes functioning. Unfortunately my knowledge of Xantia systems is somewhat out of date and may not be applicable to the HDis.

Basically it appears that a front calliper has been replaced and the brakes are no longer functional.
My suggestions were all about bleeding the brakes and priming the pump if it has not already been done, and Citroebics to bleed the system through.
I haven't any information with regards to the ABS system and if this is likely to have any impact.

He is unable to relocate the car to a garage more at home with Citroen hydraulics.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by citronut »

hi Dmitry

is it p[ossible the garage have opened the bleed valve on the regulator and not closed it, this is the 12mm bolt head on the regulator on the front of the engine/gear box,

i would say there was no reason/cause to fit another hydraulic pump,
if the suspension is raising/lifting up there should be hydraulic pressure going to the braking circuit, because the brakes are the first to be fed with pressure and the last to loose it,

with the engine running open one caliper bleed nipple whilst having a clear bleed tube from it into a container, now press and hold the brake pedal dow till you get a good strong flow of LHM, now close that nipple, now follow the same on the other three calipers,
but the rear ones it is best to have the suspension up on full height whilst bleeding these, as it will give full flow/pressure to the rear brake circuit,

hope this helps
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Dmitry »

xantia_v6 wrote:I think you need to give more details of exactly what work was done, and what is the problem with the brakes?
After the accumulator, there is not much in common between the 2 systems.
Thanks a lot for your input. I will pass it on the mechanic and hopefully it will work out.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Dmitry »

xantia_v6 wrote:I think you need to give more details of exactly what work was done, and what is the problem with the brakes?
After the accumulator, there is not much in common between the 2 systems.
The car is Xantia 2.0HDi (2001). It lost steering due to a leakage in the front suspension system and it was transported to a garage. The leakage was due to a faulty hydraulic safety control valve. Together with the valve all pipes connected to it were replaced and the system was refilled with hydraulic liquid. The suspension is working OK after the repairing but the braking system is not functional: pressing the brake pedal does not have any effect. A Citroen mechanic suggested to replace the high pressure hydraulic pump but this did not have any effect suggesting that the original pump was OK. I would like to know if any special procedure should be carried out after the repairing of the hydraulic pipes to get the system function properly?

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by citronut »

i think either the garage have mixed up pipes, connected them the wrong way,
as the brakes are the first to be fed with pressure for safety purposes,

as the suspension is working the braking circuit might be full of air, but very unusual for the brakes to not work at all if the suspension is working,as i said earlier the first thing to try is thoroughly bleed the brakes in the way i described in my last reply
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
Dmitry
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Dmitry »

Hello All,

The mechanic has tried the brake bleeding protocol provided by Steve and the advice of Malcolm and told me that the problem is still there. I cannot guarantee that the pipes are not mixed up and I will ask the mechanic to check the layout. Still, Is there any other reason which could cause this problem?

Thanks,
Dmitry
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by dnsey »

'Crack' the pipe joint feeding the brake doseur valve to check that there's fluid present under pressure; if not, work backwards to find the point where fluid is present.
Do the same at the valve outlet pipe, checking for fluid when the brake pedal is operated.
Follow the circuit through; where the flow of fluid stops is where the problem lies.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by citronut »

re/reading your earlier post you say the garage have fitted another safety valve,
thus us probably were they have mixed the pipes up,

as one port of the safety valve should feed straight to the brake circuit with no restriction, and before the hydraulic pressure opens the other port of the safety valve which feeds the suspension,
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Mandrake »

I agree, it does sound like the pipes have been mixed up, the following diagrams might be helpful in sorting out the correct connections to the priority valve:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... /antisink/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It describes the anti-sink system but also includes the priority valve.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Old-Guy »

If the front brakes can be bled (there's a steady flow of fluid when the pedal is held down) using the correct procedure then I would think the pipes are connected correctly.
BUT, you have to wait for the big red STOP light on the CONTROLE panel is out before the brakes will work.

What "hydraulic fluid" did the mechanic use?
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Dmitry
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Dmitry »

Hello Steve and Malcolm,

I moved my Citroen Xantia to a Citroen garage with the brakes problem which could not be repaired by the HiQ. A mechanic of the Citroen garage checked the commutation of the replaced pipes and the valve and confirmed that it is OK. He thinks that one of the hydraulic pipes is clogged however it is by far to much work to find out where is a problem and suggested to skip the car. The car however has less than 100,000 miles has new battery, tyres, brakes pads and discs and apart from the brakes problem was working quite well. Do you think the scrappage is really the best way to solve the problem?

Best regards,
Dmitry
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by myglaren »

I certainly wouldn't scrap it without investing a little more time and effort into locating the problem.

It is too much of a coincidence to not be related to work recently done.

Can you confirm that the brakes have been bled and that fluid does actually issue from the bleed nipples when they are opened?
If you meticulously clean the bleed nipple and the area around it and catch the LHM in a clean vessel then as long as the fluid that comes out is fresh, clean and green then it can be returned to the reservoir to keep the cost of LHM down.

It is a simple and easy procedure to do yourself.

If there is a lack of fluid from one or more of the bleed nipples then it should be fairly easy to disconnect the pipe at the other end and check for blockages. If no fluid issues from any of the bleed nipples then I would assume a failed component, the brake doseur being the foremost one (the Citroen equivalent of a brake master cylinder).

This would be rather unfortunate as it is rather inaccessible and also quite expensive to replace.
Better than scrapping the car and there would likely be one available through the "For Sale & Wanted" forum if it came to need being replaced.
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Re: Xantia Brakes

Post by Xantidote »

Is it possible that when a pipe was replaced, a bit of a pipe rubber seal, new or old, has been dislodged and become stuck in the pipe, or whatever fitting the pipe fits into?
Martin

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