Slipping Clutch

[fifth_cit]

Two years and about 16k miles since I had a complete new clutch and main seal fitted under warranty in my 2.0 Tourer.

Last week I towed my caravan to County Durham which from my area means going up a long steep hill (between Tebay and Kirby Stephen). We went up no problem and carried on over the Penines on the A66.

On my way home on the M6 on a slight incline I thought I heard the clutch slip but wasn't quick enough to see the rev counter.

Surely not I thought its only 2 years old but about 50 miles further on it did it again when accelerating (not harshley) in 5th between 50 and 60.

Now I know some will say heavy left foot resting on the pedal but in 40 years of driving I have never had a clutch go in a car and it was put down to weak springs and a bit of oil leakage on the original clutch. No one else has driven the car since the replacement.

Is there some adjustment I can make or is it another replacement ?

And what make of clutch would citroen have fitted so I can avoid another ?

Keith

[citroenxm]

Dual Mass rubbish.. known to fail at stupid miles so obviously yours must be again.. Another down side of modern motors....

[dexy350]

Not to sure if you can put a normal clutch in ie solid flywheel in a newer c5 ,I did on my old one didn't make any difference to the running of the car ie no problems with vibration
Think I would be checking to see if there is a solid flywheel and clutch to replace the DMF which are crap
Dexy

[citroenxm]

Not to sure if you can put a normal clutch in ie solid flywheel in a newer c5 ,I did on my old one didn't make any difference to the running of the car ie no problems with vibration
Think I would be checking to see if there is a solid flywheel and clutch to replace the DMF which are crap
Dexy

Well NO why should it, the Xantias NEVER had DMF fitted, and its the same unit in the early C5's ....

[Peter.N.]

Is the clutch engaging right at the top of the pedal movement, if so the clutch is probably the answer but if its engaging about half way could be oil on it. Both of mine have done quite high mileages and far as I know the clutch and DMF are original, 213,000 on the 406. What Paul says makes sense, I don't think the 90 hp 406 has a DMF either. The 2.1 XM didn't and that was much smoother at low revs than the Hdi.

Peter

[Lighty]

We recently had a C5 clutch fail in less than a year, at about 26000 miles (guy does a lot of miles)
A lot of garages would blame the driver, but this is a customer of long standing and never had an issue with his other cars. I couldn't make it slip, but was happy to believe him as it had always felt a little wishy washy.
Anyway changed it under warranty, DMF and clutch, and all,was well(felt much more positive). LUK actually passed the claim for parts and labour, this is virtually unknown, so I was pleased as I was expecting to stand the cost myself.
Never found out what the issue was, but the clutch drive plate was "as new " visually, so must have been the DMF or pressure plate.

[fifth_cit]

The clutch is biting in the middle as normal and still feels good, no flapping or wheezing noises that I beleive come when the DMF is giving way. Car has only just done 41k.

I don't know if it had a new DMF when it was changed but was told they fitted the new modified main seal. Would Citroen have fitted a LUK clutch, if so I'll go for a different make if I have it done.

I guess this will cost £750 to £1000 to have it done and that represents about 15 to 20 % of the cars trade in value. There's a nice looking RAV 4 down the road and I am surely tempted to put it in PX.

[citroenxm]

Crazy all this dmf s. H. I. T. E my xantia I believe on its original clutch is on 239k.. Just starting to slip if I touch the clutch pedal..

[Citroenmad]

Who did the first clutch change? You would have noticed if the DMF was changed or not as they are about £250-£300 just for the part. My guess it is has not been changed and the original problem has remained, the new clutch masking the defective flywheel.

I had the same problem on my last C5 which has the same engine, 2.0HDi 16v 138, I bought it with 11K miles and thought I noticed clutch slip the day I collected the car. I took it back and they couldnt get it to slip but they did extend the clutch warranty (as if that would mean anything!). I didnt get clutch slip again until a year and 16K miles later, at which point it would come and go. There was no clutch judder, virbrations or DMF rattle. Sometimes the clutch would slip very badly, making accelerating difficult and other times it was fine.

I booked it in with 25,000 miles on the clock to have a new clutch kit, DMF and gearbox oil seal. That lot and labour came in at over £700 but the problem didnt occur again. It was put down to the DMF having too much play, which was said to have been a manufacturing fault rather than wear and tear. By then the car was not in warranty.

DMFs are an awful design and are designed to fail, why else would we need them. Yes, they might limit vibrations but why not design the engine or mounts differently. My Xantia HDi doesnt have a DMF and is as smooth as silk, as it our 2.0HDi 8v C5 which had its DMF replaced at 60K with a solid flywheel. It has now done over 150K and the clutch is still fine, of course it is its a proper clutch!

Unfortunately to my knowledge the 2.0HDi 8v is the only one which has a solid flywheel conversion kit available. I have heard of problems with other engines/makes of car that fitting a solid flywheel to a car designed to have a DMF can cause serious engine problems.

I would seriously think twice about buying another 2.0HDi 16v as it does seem a very common problem and I can do without the hassle and expense of replacing clutches for no fault of my own. The friction plate on mine, as you can imagine having only covered 25K miles, was like new but was replaced anyway. A terrible design which really put me off the car.

Our C5 estate 2.0HDi 138 16v now needs a DMF due to the rattle and virbration problem.

[RichardW]

This engine uses a LUK self adjusting clutch - I rather suspect that the fault lies in the self adjusting mech - ie sometimes it doesn't! This would account for it coming and going as in Chris's case. I don't know if there are alternative clutch units without the self adjuster - if there was then I would fit one of those instead!

[fifth_cit]

Who did the first clutch change? You would have noticed if the DMF was changed or not as they are about £250-£300 just for the part. My guess it is has not been changed and the original problem has remained, the new clutch masking the defective flywheel.

Thanks for the replies.

It was done as a warranty claim without charge (or paperwork)at about 25k but I suspect it was clutch only.

I thought it was the main bearing seal and pressed for the repair along those lines frequently quoting google searches and C-Crosser probelms of the same nature. £note signs flashed in the service managers eyes and he quickly changed his mind and agreed to book it in for "investigation into oil leaks". When I went back for it they said the clutch friction plate was like new and the was little to no oil leak from the seal. He put it down to weak springs in the pressure plate.

Its sort of beginning to make sense now, new clutch masks the problem and puts a bit more material back on the plate and all is well for a while.

Can't find a solid flywheel conversion or any other source other than LUK for a DMF although other other clutch kits are available.

10 years ago I would have tackled this job my self but worn knee joints (not a DIY job) prevent mutch more than oil changes these days so I will go for some quotes.

[BrianM]

Just had my clutch replaced @ 72K miles.
Started slipping about 4 months ago especially in 5th or 6th giving it a bit of shoe @ 2000 revs.
Original DMF had failed @ 26K and was done under warranty at the time.
Replaced the DMF again now but wasn't absolutely necessary - but didn't want to be off the road again in a few months.
Have been driving 25 years and in that time have put close on 1/2 million miles on the cars I've had and never had to put in a clutch because of my driving !.

Brian
2009 C5 Exclusive