XUD9 to XUD11 ?

[Geoff Lebowski]

Hi,
I want to pick the collective brains of the FCF regarding fitting an XUD11 crankshaft and pistons to an XUD9 block.
Due to the water pump and thermostat arrangement on the xud11 block, using a standard xud11 is not possible.
However, I'm giving serious thought to having an xud9 block bored to suit the 2.1 pistons and fitting with the 2.1 crankshaft. However, I am curious as to why PSA changed the water pump arrangement on the xud11.
Was it a carry over from the 2.1 n/a?
Was it to fit a bigger pump?
Were there issues with the crank case wall thickness between the larger pistons and the water jacket?

I was going to use a DW10ATED block (as the 2.0 pistons are the same diameter as the 2.1), but, the dowels and bolt holes for the fuel injection pump mount are different. However, the dw10 block is bascially and xud block with bigger bores. This leads me to believe an xud9 block will be fine bored out to the 2.1 diameter pistons.
It's the increased throw of the crank shaft that bothers me. There will need to be extra clearance for the con rods - the xud11 block was 1mm thinner than the dw10 block where the sump fits.
Will the xud 9 block cope with the extra torque from the crank shaft? I can't see why not, but, my C5HDi (dw10ated) was much less peppy than the Xantia, despite Citroen quoting exactly the same BHP/Torque figures for both cars.

Any thoughts/input welcome!

[noeglez9207]

Yo tengo interés en hacer esa transformación. Pero tengo muchas dudas. Según lo que he investigado, el cigüeñal y las bielas y todo son iguales (xud9 y dw10 antes rhz) a excepción de los pistones q son 2.0. Pero no sé si la bomba d agua es igual y no sé qué son las clavijas que usted menciona.
Llego usted a hacer la transformación. Saludos

Google translation...

" I am interested in making that transformation. But I have many doubts. Based on what I have investigated, the crankshaft and connecting rods and everything are the same (xud9 and dw10 before rhz) except for the pistons that are 2.0. But I don't know if the water pump is the same and I don't know what the pins you mention are.
You get to make the transformation. Greetings "

Moderator note:
Please make posts in English, where you are able, via Google translate if needed. Thanks.

[Peter.N.]

The whole cooling system was revised on the 2.1. with the thermostat on the R/H rear of the engine. Much better arrangement altogether, self bleeding and you can't get air trapped in it. Never had an XUD 11 head fail.

Peter

[CitroJim]

Geoff, you ask some very interesting questions there I don't know for sure but would love to know the definitive answers...

I agree with Peter that it's a much better arrangement in the 2.1 and also the use of sacrificial rockers saves the camshaft if the cambelt snaps...

The 2.1TD pistons are much heavier than the 1.9 ones and it renders the engine much less a 'revver' compared to to the 1.9TD. It is however, a delightful low-revving, laid-back torquemonster

Of the PSA IDI engines, the 2.1TD is the best by far...

Be aware if you do use 2.1TD bits to up the capacity/torque/power of a 1.9 the existing BE3 gearbox may spit its dummy. The diff is not up to the power and torque of the 2.1 engine, hence why the ML5 was used with the 2.1, 110Hdi and 2.0TCT engined vehicles...

[Fin50]

Dear all.

Geoff, could you possibly take the cylinder block to a local NDT-company (Non Destructive Testing), like KIWA Inspecta? If there is some larger metal industry around, there will be also those companies. Call them first, and ask is it possible to make ultrasonic thickness test to gray cast iron. That's how you would know the cylinder wall thicknesses.

How about simply giving your XUD9 maybe a larger turbo, with a well matched turbine housing to minimize back pressure on the exhaust side, more boost, and a good intercooler (with low pressure drop and good cooling capacity)?

I guess porting of the head+manifolds could also be an option, as it is swirl chamber motor = flow pattern in the cylinder is as critical as in direct injection motors.
XUD11 had a 12 valve cylinder head, right? One option could be trying to install that head in the XUD9 block?

Fin50

ps.
Not to original question, but...
I used to have a stock XUD11 turbo (110hp) mated with BE3-gearbox with no problems for some 3 years of hard use. The car, however, was a feather-light Peugeot 205 (compared to larger and more modern cars), and wheel spin possibly limited torque and protected the differential with first gear. I remember 405 Mi16 had larger differential in the otherwise same BE-gearbox? There was also difference in length of inner end of one driveshaft, just don't remember which one. I also used to have a 205 1.9 turbo with mild boost. Max torque was around 250Nm, and I never had problem with original clutch or BE3-tranny.

[Peter.N.]

I suspect that the XUD 11 may have more head bolts.

Peter