Heavy power steering after LHM feed pipe change

[charentejohn]

This relates to the leaking pipe thread I had a while ago. http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=43749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just tried actually driving the car and sterring is heavy to unusable. Simon did say this could happen if the flow was restricted but I used a pipe with the same internal diameter as the inlet into the pump.
So what is happening, I am starting to take this personally as every time I fix something something else goes wrong.

I will take the new connection I made off and check for blockages.
If it helps diagnosis the Stop light stays on for 30 secs+ before going out. Would citrobics help ?

[electronmirror]

I don't think the 30 seconds or so before the light goes out is a cause for concern, mine has done this for a long time and seems to be healthy enough.

An extended session of Citroebics is always a good idea if the hydraulics have been opened up for any reason. Possibly the refitting of the feed pipe has allowed air into the system. There was a thread on the forum recently about the high pressure feed pipe to the steering ram which is notorious for corrosion failure on series 2 Xantias. This pipe is steel with a flexi rubber section to it and appears not to have been painted from the factory so it's only a matter of time....Apparently the diameter of the rubber flexi section is critical because it produces in effect a hydraulic pulse damping resevoir.

I can see from your photos of the plumbing that the 90 degree elbow appears to be quite reduced in diameter between the 2 ends but I don't think it should affect the LHM flow rate that much, it is after all under slight vacuum not pressure.

I'll have to do a similar job on mine shortly, the 'cut pipe back and use jubilee clip' will only hold for so long before the brittle pipe gives way again. I'm looking at sources for silicone oil pipe and 90 degree elbows at the moment.

Good luck, I'm sure the car isn't starting a personal conflict with you

[charentejohn]

I am not sure on your last point as the car does seem to be having a go at me recently

I think I found the problem though, bits of rubber at the bend in the pipe, 3 bits shaved from the inside of the pipe when I put the copper pipe inside.
I was aware this could be a problem and rounded the outside edge with sandpaper, not well enough it seems. I did think it could be a lump of solder on the inside.
So I cleaned the pipe thouroughly and refitted it, very carefully.

The comment that this is just a slight suction is encouraging as my main concern was that some rubber had entered the pump, hopefully not.
the pieces were about 10mmx3mm long thin slices, hopefuly these are the only ones and were trapped in the bend because of low flow rather than being blasted round it under pressure.

Steering works now and done some citrobics to clear any air, also steering lock to lock a couple of times just in case it matters.
I will xref this with the other post to warn anyone doing the same to be careful. Ideally 'store bought' pipe made to order would be best, I will see if I can have some made at the local tractor place as they use a lot of hydraulics, same size as the copper bit but with ridges ends like a normal pipe.

[Xantidote]

Did the Stop Light always take 30 seconds to go out, or just since the recent work on the hydraulic pipe?

Like Electronmirror suggests, check all the air has been purged from the system. Try turning the steering from full lock to full lock a few times

[charentejohn]

Thanks I will do that now, normally only about 10 seconds to Stop light out.
Basically the whole hydraulic system was slow to react, raise / lower and heavy steering.
I found 3 bits of rubber jammed in the bend and still air downstream of them so they were stopping the fluid, just a trickle getting through.
I had to use a piece of plastic to wotk the pieces loose, luckily they jammed up or else they would be in the pump.....

Hopefully all rubber bits are gone now and no more lurking in the pipe. I doubt they would do the pump any good, this is downstream of the filters so normally nothing like this would be present.
I am now a litte careful about running the car in case there are other bits, may leave it until tomorrow and see if I can have a proper pipe made and then fit it after removing some of the damaged rubber hose. All joints are sound with jubilee clips.

[Old-Guy]

John
Sorry to hear of your further problems.

The HP pump is really two in one - separate sections for PAS and suspension/brakes; in fact really two separate hydraulic systems that share only a common reservoir. Citarobics will only purge the suspension/brakes circuit of air; the only way to purge the steering circuit is to move the steering slowly from lock to lock a good many times (best with the front wheels off the ground) - with the engine running of course.

If the brakes 'hesitate' at all, you also need to bleed the brakes (rears first) - but that's dead easy on a Xantia.

[charentejohn]

Thanks for that piece of info. I am intending to bleed the brakes as I have a load of hydraflush to use and the plan was to do the change and bleed brakes.
That was just before all this lot so I will finally get around to it. I will do the pas bleed now and make sure the brakes are ok. Once I am sure the other bits, alternator, timing belt, adjuster are all ok I will do the flush. This will involve brake bleeding so as long as all is ok for the moment I can do the full bit when I add the flush.
In doing this I added too much LHM and used a pump to remove the excess from the reservoir, nasty, brown like stewed tea so the sooner the better.

As they say, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean people (or your car) aren't getting at you. My backup car, ford transit automatic had an inhibitor switch fault at the same time as this, at least that is fixed.
And on that I have some very fine aluminium mesh I am thinking of using in the hose (cut a strip and wrap around the end of the pipe before putting into the hose) just to catch any stray bits of rubber, just in case. I will be out tomorrow to see if a local place can make / supply a better pipe to replace the one I made which would be my first choice.

[charentejohn]

Just an update and info request.
I finally made the repair permanent by using nylon connectors, a 90 degree one had an 8mm internal diameter which is fine. I tried everywhere here and no straight connectors......
So I ordered 2 from ebay UK (one as a spare) with 8mm diameter, sadly only one arrived and it was 7mm diameter, I have e-mailed for replacements but used the 7mm anyway.

Seems ok but would a restricted pipe stress the system in any way ?
Car Stop light goes out in 10 seconds first thing after running the car the day before and steering is ok but maybe a little heavier than it was. Could be imagination as it is weeks since I drove the car.
Took it out for 10 mins and seemd ok.

Amazing the difference 1mm makes, 7mm gives 39 sq mm area and 8mm is 50 sq mm, basically a 20% reduction, scary.
I want to start using the car again so hope any reduction won't cause serious problems, main concern is when doing 70mph so pump speed / pressure up and drawing more fluid.
Hopefully proper pieces will be here soon.