Glowplug Disaster!

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 10 Oct 2003, 04:21

This all started on Tuesday when I decided it was time to change the glowplugs on the Xantia. I wanted to do the job there and then, and couldn't really motivate myself to go 20 or 40 miles to GSF Liverpool or Manchester. Decided to nip into the Partco round the corner from where I work as last time I went in for a couple of bulbs they were dirt cheap. Went in and asked for the plugs and the bloke returns with NGK ones - all they stock. I had read warnings on here that they were no good but being on the spot I decided to buy them as I'll only be keeping it for another 6 months tops.
Got the shock of my life when he asked me for £39.95 for 4! And that was trade price btw, they retail at £12.49+VAT! Anyway I threw my credit card at him and went round to my mates workshop to fit them. Did the easy three and couldn't really be bothered doing the one behind the pump as I was ready for my tea so I left it.
Tried to start the car - it started after about 20 seconds cranking with a plume of smoke and sounded rough as hell for about a minute - previously it was slightly rough for about 10 seconds then went fine.
Tried starting it a few times that evening and it was crap - worse than its ever been! These things are worse than the 1997 Lucas plugs that look well past their best I took out. The following morning it was horrendous to get going and ran awfully rough.
Rang my Dad and asked him to get me a set of Beru from GSF Liverpool. They didn't have them, so I ended up getting them today. Started the fitting process about 6pm tonight, and feeling brave I thought I'll do the hardest one first!
Got the little nut off and the wire off easily, but there was absolutely no way I could get a spanner - ring or open ender - on the plug as the coolant pipe was bent around the plug about 3mm away. Had a think and decided there was no way it was coming off without the pipe coming off first. Dave Burns had warned me about this in another thread but there was no other way to do it. Took the pipe off which was easy enough bar the fact about 2 litres of coolant poured onto the garage floor. Took a spanner to the plug and would it budge - would it heck!
Decided to give the spanner a real hard pull - plug moved and then a sharp twanging noise. Looked around and finally spotted the bloody pipe fitting for the little coolant pipe had sheared off as the spanner hit it. I was more than a little pissed off I'll tell. Still not to worry, on with removing the fitting so it can be replaced. Top bolt came out after a bit of a soaking of WD40 and a bit of pipe over the end of the allen key for leverage. Bottom one is impossible to access from the front, and after mangling the 4 6mm Allen keys I had I gave up and took my frustrations out on it firstly with a cold chisel, then a long screwdriver, then a set of mole grips, then a wood chisel and then the screwdriver again. After about an hour it started turning and I have finally managed to get the mangled mess out without any long term damage to the cylinder head.
I will have to make a hopeful call at 7.30am tomorrow to the parts department at the dealer I use who will hopefully have the fitting, gasket and 2 bolts I need on the shelf. I can't imagine im the only one to break one of these (am I?

) so they will probably keep them in.
So far the exercise has cost me £39.95 for the NGK plugs, £30.55 for the Beru plugs and the parts I need tomorrow come to about £25.00 so thats £95.50 for the job plus about 5 hours labour. Wish I'd sent it to the Diesel specialist who quoted me £70 all in now!

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 10 Oct 2003, 04:59

Blueboy -
Sh** happens ! - even to pro's - who'll then have to bother how the excuses are expressed on the bill [}:)]
What I can't believe is your NGK plugs experience [?]
These MUST somehow be wrongly spec'ed or listed [:0]
The BERU plugs are reputed for durability and long service life - but the correct spec'ed NGK equivalents should definately not give starting problems at least.
Otherwise NGK is a reputed quality supplier of spark plugs.
Don't blame yourself your misshap - even with DaveBurns advice in mind. Had you not removed the coolant pipe - chances were you'd goofed the old plug or the head's thread instead - leaving you with a much more "interesting" problem.
At least your problem now is more a matter of replacing bits.
It's wellknown that DIY'ers have to pay for their learnings - you never hear a word of the misshaps from the pro's. But you can be darned sure they also fails at times !

Unread post by **Jon** » 10 Oct 2003, 13:50

And, does it start up any better? [}:)]

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 10 Oct 2003, 17:17

Wouldn't know yet, nobody has one of the plates on the shelf so they're getting me one overnight subject to them being in stock at Citroen. Can't start it as there's no coolant in it at the moment.
Better bloody had start right or it will be meeting a painful demise with an angle grinder!

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 10 Oct 2003, 20:46

Hi bluey,
What was wrong with the old plugs? If it ain't wrong don't fix it!
Still on my original glowplugs ('93 XM TD12, 494,673km).
//NiSk

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 12 Oct 2003, 01:32

Update:
The old plugs had had it - it was starting on 3 with a big puff of white smoke. Having taken them out they look well knackered but they were fitted way back in Jan 98 and have done 80,000 miles since then. They were Lucas plugs I've taken out, but if you get 5 years out of them I don't consider that too bad going. This will be this cars 4th set of plugs according to my records.
Anyway, got the bits this morning and set about fitting them. Got the first bolt in in about 30 seconds, the second one took me the best part of 4 hours, and I lost a new bolt but fortunately I ordered 4 as from previous form I was certain I'd lose at least one. I eventually, after contemplating removing the diesel pump, butchered an allen key but cutting it down and bending it and managed to screw the bolt down. It doesn't leak which is a result as well.
The new fitting is way more substantial that the original one I broke so they have obviously modified them at some stage.
The good news is it now starts perfectly, in fact better than the 52 plate diesel Berlingo vans at work.
If there's ever a next time, the cars going straight to the diesel specialist!
Anyone want a set of NGK glow plugs btw?

David W · Unread post by **David W** » 12 Oct 2003, 02:21

Guys,
I've fitted about every make of glowplugs you can get to XUD engines over the past ten years. I aim to get Beru but circumstances and the plugs supplied by owners have given me these various experiences.
The difference in alternative make plugs isn't staggering when they are brand new. I've never had a set that has failed to be far better than the failing old ones. Some plugs have a better post-start heat and give smoother running just after starting though.
My main annoyance with cheap plugs is that they can fail in quite a short time.
NGK will be fine if the grade is correct.
That first plug! The number of times I do a set to find that has been left for years after failing.
David

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 16 Oct 2003, 01:28

I've used NGK heater plugs in my 96 ZX td with 126k for a number of years, no problem and also in my Ford Escort. The worst ones I've found are Halfords own, they are slow heaters hence waiting along time after the light goes out before starting used for one week before binning them.
Perhaps the NGK plugs you were supplied with were not the rapid heat type.??

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 16 Oct 2003, 04:30

I've checked on the website and the part number on the packaging is the part number they reccomend. Wish I'd gone into Halfords now and bought Bosch Duratherms - they were 5p dearer for 4 than the NGK. I've now got £39.95 worth of NGK paperweights!
Very happy with the Beru plugs though, starts instantly with no white smoke and no roughness so that'll do me.

v0n · Unread post by **v0n** » 16 Oct 2003, 12:03

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blueboy2001</i>

I've now got £39.95 worth of NGK paperweights!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Can't you send it together with purchase receipt to NGK for refund?

mipster · Unread post by **mipster** » 16 Oct 2003, 19:04

I had my plugs done by a garage and they broke the same part, didn't realise for a week but they happily fitted the new one FOC.
I had to change it myself this year and I replaced the bottom allan bolt with a normal one, much easier to put back in and, in future, to remove.
mipzter