Xantia - identity of rusty pipe ?

[Mandrake]

Hi All,

While working on the Xantia on Sunday I did a bit of inspection around the engine bay with a torch (asking for trouble on a 15 year old car I know) and came across this down the right hand (cambelt) side of the engine:

(click image for full size)

The picture doesn't really do it justice as its an iPhone picture assisted by an LED torch, but the pipe appears to have literally exploded with rust and looks like it is barely hanging on by a thread. I'm referring to the pipe that is passing through the black plastic clip on the middle of the crossmember.

Can anyone confirm if this is the steel feed line to the front right calliper flexi hose ? If it is this could be very dangerous indeed and require urgent attention. There is also some oil on the crossmember near the pipe although its not clear whether its coming from there or not.

If it is the brake line does anyone know how long the pipe is and where it terminates at the other end ? It's a '98 Series 2 V6 with Hydractive 2.

I'm assuming Pleadies is probably the best place to get a replacement pipe ?

[CitroJim]

It could be.. If so then it'll run from the dosuer...

Give it a good clean up Simon. These can look worse than they actually are. Clean up and then protect it whilst you think about replacing it...

[Mandrake]

Hmm, wouldn't it first go to the ABS control block on the other side of the engine bay ?

I really don't want to touch it unnecessarily Jim, its much worse than the picture shows, the rust has expanded to twice the original diameter, I really think just rubbing or bumping it would finish it off, and there may already be a pinhole leak...

[CitroJim]

Yes, you're right Simon it'll go to the ABS as each caliper is fed separately at the front...

get it sorted ASAP then! Pleiades should be able to get a pipe quick and they may still be available from Citroen...

[addo]

Don't the S2 cars have a metal section inline for the strut leakoff returns?

[Mandrake]

Don't the S2 cars have a metal section inline for the strut leakoff returns?

There's a thought, I forgot about the strut leak off pipe. I hope you're right.

I'll have to take the wheel off this weekend and see where its coming from...

[Hell Razor5543]

[RichardW]

If it is the feed pipe, then it is listed as NFP for the V6. It was £26 - the same pipe for all other variants (except HDi 90) is listed as the same length but costs £47 (and is still available). Citroen have been out with their random number generator again. HDi 90 is shorter, and also NFP, and yes it runs to the ABS block. I suspect replacing it is and possibly required on mine for next MOT

[Mandrake]

Argh. Am I the only one that thinks its disgraceful behavior of a manufacturer to have such a large number of parts listed as NFP on a model line that only ceased sale barely 12 years ago ?

With a bit of care modern cars easily last 12 years and still have a few good years in them after that. I can understand highly specific parts getting more expensive but to just say "sorry, no longer available" seems lazy and a real disservice to their customer base. At the 12-15 year old mark is exactly when a lot of these discontinued parts are most likely going to be needed... Am I right in reading recently that OEM strut tops are also no longer available for Xantia's ?

[RichardW]

They're only (just) interested for the 3 years of the warranty, Simon. I have a dim recollection that they are supposed to provide support for 10 years after discontinuing a model - but no idea if that is voluntary. Expected average design life of a new car is, apparently, only 7 years in any case

The pipe will be much easier to fit if you buy a Kunifer one anyway, so you can bend as you go along. You can do it at mine, and I will look on with interest to pick up tips for when I have to do it later in the year At least it will likely be unscrewable from the ABS block - the other end might be another matter though, so I would probably bank on having to sacrifice the flexi as well

[KennyW]

Simon,

Speak to David Hallworth he has made me some pipes in the past, give him a shout.

Kenny

PS If there is viewing at the fitting I'll come along

[Old-Guy]

They're only (just) interested for the 3 years of the warranty, Simon. I have a dim recollection that they are supposed to provide support for 10 years after discontinuing a model - but no idea if that is voluntary. Expected average design life of a new car is, apparently, only 7 years in any case

I believe you're right about parts for 10 years (but perhaps I got my impression from the same place as you The widely quoted 7 year average life comes from some research done in Holland by the university of Liden (IIRC). Much less well pubicised is that the same research also concluded that slightly more than half the environmental cost of an average car with an average seven-year life comes from the initial manufacture. Thus the longer a car (in good order) lasts, the less it's total environmental impact. Scrapping an old car in good working order to buy a new "eco-car" is actually the reverse of the motor industry's propaganda - and as for 'hybrids' .... words don't quite fail me but lead, nickel and lithium mining are far more damaging to the environment than iron (and a lot of steel is recycled).

[Mandrake]

Bad news guys. I had the wheel off on the weekend and its definitely the feed line for the front right brake calliper where it joins the flexi hose. I tried to rub the surface rust off and its not QUITE as bad as I thought it was, not in imminent risk of failure (I hope) but if it gets spotted during the next MOT I'm sure it will be a fail.

So I'm best to contact Pleaides for a new pipe then ? The front brake flexi's were an advisory at the last MOT so I guess I should do them at the same time, and it looks rusty enough where it goes into the flexi that chances are I couldn't replace it by itself anyway. Can anyone describe how the flexi is anchored at the body end and what type of joint there is between the steel pipe and the flexi ?

The one on the passenger side is not rusty in the same way but might be equally rusty where it joins the flexi. Ironically the left and side actually looks harder to replace than the longer pipe that goes to the right hand side.

[RichardW]

AFAIK the pipe union is just screwed into the end of the flexi, and the flexi is held to the body by some sort of clip that can only be removed after the pipe is removed. As the pipe is scrap anyway, just cut if off above the union ( Don't cut the pipe too short - you may need to bend the stub over to give you some purchase to extract the remnant from the flexi - I find they are tight to get out if the union doesn't jack them out), this will then allow you to get on the union with a ring spanner, or six sided socket. Give it's proximity to the salt, I doubt this will be enough, and mole grips or stilsons will be required to remove it - it probably will come out though - once cracked, the pipe came out of the rear susp unit on mine and at first appearance it was just a blob of rust!

[Estately]

Hi,
I had to remove the driver’s side brake pipe on our Dec 2000 Xantia 2.0 Ltr HDI 90. A Spray with Plus Gas to start proceedings into the back of the connector along the pipe as well as on the thread into the flexible hose is always worthwhile. Give it time to penetrate. Turn the wheel fully to the right and use a small wire brush to clear any loose rust and dirt on the connector (taking care not to damage the black plastic coating on the brake pipe unless it is US).
The metal end of the rubber pipe is held in the welded bracket by a spring clip inboard and to prevent rotation it is “gear” shaped.
On the above model the total length was 74 inches. Access across the rear of the sub frame behind the engine is good so you could consider cutting there inserting a connector and replacing the length to the flexible with kunifer.
I found it very difficult to remove and re feed the pipe up the passenger side towards the ABS unit, even with the LHM reservoir removed.

Access at the calliper end is a little awkward in that there is no room to turn a long spanner (11mm) so I used a couple of mole grips taking care not to squeeze the pipe connector too tightly in case it is deformed out of round. That is - one grip on the metal part of the rubber pipe and a smaller one on the pipe connector. The rubber pipe then retracts back off the metal pipe as you undo the thread, the metal pipe is then in the correct position when the new pipe is fitted.
I felt that the spanner was going to create a flat on the connector but the mole grips did the job no problem.

The job had to be done because the metal outer casing of the clutch cable has rubbed on the driver’s side metal front brake pipe, caused rust and obviously a small hole followed by an LHM shower under the car. Not easy to find, but with the engine tray removed and the car well supported worth checking, just follow the clutch cable from the gearbox passenger side until it heads up somewhere under where the driver’s feet are, make sure it is not touching the brake pipe.
Hope that helps.

Andy