Mike D's Xsara & (now Ex C8) blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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miked
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Mike D's Xsara & (now Ex C8) blog

Post by miked »

Edit: This blog started out as a question about a fuel pump leak, but I realised I was taking my own post off topic by updating it with how I was getting on. So I asked myglaren to move it here so I don't keep bumping it to the top of the Citroen section. I do actually like my car but I can understand, after having previously owned a BX (14E leader), 2 AX GT's and a Xantia TD how a Xsara might seem a bit boring. Or maybe the blog will be boring.


Well, after 10 years of trouble free motoring with my Xsara it's time to get the spanners out. Car is 2003 110 HDI (Bosch pump)
It's quite a bad diesel leak from around the plate bolted to the front of the pump. Shown in picture below with the green arrow.

To get the four torx bolts out I'm going to have to remove the pump. Do I need to take the pulley off the fuel pump after slackening the timing belt? To remove the pump I can easily get to two bolts at the top and I can just feel another one bolt underneath. To get a socket on this third bolt I could do with removing the electrical thing arrowed red. Will that give me any grief if I remove it? After that is there any more bolts or just the three?

Then after I get pump off the car and take the leaking plate off the pump will I find a gasket or a rubber seal? What do I need to ask for at the parts desk?

I'll be changing the timing belt, tensioners etc. at the same time as it's done 85 thousand miles, but am fairly confident with that having done one on a TD Xantia years ago.

Thanks in advance,

Mike.



Image
Last edited by miked on 25 Dec 2017, 18:16, edited 5 times in total.
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Lighty
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by Lighty »

You shouldn't need to remove that red arrowed part to get the pump off really, I think it is best to remove as few parts as possible when working on these pumps.
There is just the 3 bolts securing the pump, but you will need to take the pulley off as suggested.
Dont bother doing anything until you have the gaskets available or another pump. I once tried to get that gasket for a Siemens pump, and couldn't, so source one first. I think the Siemens pump was a rubber moulded seal for that casing, and I think there are 3 of them around the outside body.Due to the pressures involved they take some sealing, so a bit of gasket compound wont do it.
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

Thanks Lighty.

I assumed the seals/gaskets would be a dealer stock item but it looks like you are correct and they are not easily available. Dealers just sell recon pumps at £200+. I can get a second hand pump off ebay for about £100 which wouldn't be the end of the world but to write off my pump for the sake of a simple seal would really bug me.

I came across a post on peugeotforums where someone had the same problem but it doesn't give a resolution. They have a better picture of where the leak is than I posted though:

Image

It looks like pump repair kits are out there which I assume includes the seal I need. I think I need to do a bit of internet research to confirm that and work out which kit I need and where I can get one from.

And you are right about not removing that thing with the electrical connector on it at the right of the picture above. I came across a diagram showing more seals between it and the pump.

Mike.
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

Well, I still haven't found a repair kit for the pump. So against my better instincts I have bought a second hand pump off fleebay. Despite the seller's keyboard problem, the part number matches.

I've also been running through old post's on this forum about changing the timing belt. It looks like the general opinion is to change the belt, tensioner, idler etc, and I'm OK with that.

My question is this though: Do I need a new water pump?

Mike.
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Lighty
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by Lighty »

I would change the pump if it shows signs of leakage, otherwise if it turns smoothly enough I wouldnt bother.
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

Well the ebay fuel pump arrived this morning, From a dispatch van so no idea how many miles it's done but it looks fine.

I have booked Saturday off (from the wife and kids) and have had a good read of RichardW's procedure Good job I did as I don't currently have a 16mm deep socket.

Timing belt kit not yet obtained but in stock at the local factors. I will have access to another vehicle in case I decide the water pump also needs changed.

I remember a few problems from when I changed the belt on my Xantia (over 10 years ago). Finding the hole behind the starter to pin the flywheel was a challenge. Unscrewing the Crankshaft pulley (it was tight but it seemed to give a bit each time I tried). Getting the (now bent) roofing bolt back out of the flywheel hole behind the starter motor was the biggest hold up of the day :lol: I think I replaced it with a drill bit and the pulley flew off with a breaker bar.

I've hopefully learned a lot since then.
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

So, fuel pump is still leaking like a sieve, New (2nd hand but clean) pump ready to go. Timing belt kit still in stock at the factors. Wife has offered to pick it up on the way back from town, so I should be able to start Friday night.
Only thing I thought I didn't have is a deep 16mm socket for the engine mount. But I do have a "10mm" spark plug socket which as far as I can tell is a deep 16mm socket.

Edit reason: removed suggestion to move thread to B&G section
Last edited by miked on 22 Feb 2013, 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
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spider
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by spider »

I was going to say a spark plug socket (small ones) are 16mm. Will be OK with that provided you don't use an air / impact gun on it as the socket is not really up to it.

I have a very deep one for the gearbox mounting spindle / mount (normally unscrew this to give more room when pulling a box out if possible)
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

I was/am going to start changing fuel pump and timing belt tonight, so while the kids were in the bath I thought I just go and move it from where I'd parked it in front of the garage to inside the garage.

And it wouldn't start, I had to push it inside. It seems to be turning over normally (although I've never heard it crank over much because it has always started before now).

I'm hoping the fuel pump has just decided to give up altogether with 3 meters of driving left before it was getting changed anyway. Or something else has gone wrong. Once the toddler lying beside me nods off I'll get the lexia on it.

9pm edit: Lexia showed cam and crank are still in sync, but it also showed fuel pressure, although I don't know what normal fuel pressure is when cranking. So I just cracked on with the belt & pump change. Wheel arch liner clips were the biggest hold up so far. The elusive 10mm bolt down the back of the top timing belt cover wasn't too bad. Got the aux belt off and the bottom pulley loosened (5th gear, brake pedal wedged down with a stick, a scaffold bar to extend the breaker bar and resting the 1/2" extension on an axle stand - all tips I learned here) Next step remove top engine mount and time it up but I've got all day tomorrow so I think I might call it a night.
miked
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Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by miked »

spider wrote:I was going to say a spark plug socket (small ones) are 16mm. Will be OK with that provided you don't use an air / impact gun on it as the socket is not really up to it.
The spark plug socket is part of my halfords pro socket set so it must be indestructible if they guarantee it for life :lol:

No, I don't own a 'windy gun'. I do have a compressor, great for blowing tyres up and general dust removal. I have often been tempted to get an impact driver for it but knowing me I'd end up using it too often on things I shouldn't.
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CitroJim
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Re: Mike D's boring Xsara blog

Post by CitroJim »

Mike, it's good to see your new blog and all the best for the forthcoming work :wink:
miked
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Re: Mike D's boring Xsara blog

Post by miked »

Thanks Jim.

It all went went. The car runs fine, no leaks and no left over bolts so a good result.

Looks like sometime soon I'll be changing the bottom pulley for the auxiliary belt as it doesn't look too good, but that should be simple enough compared to today's work.

I'm going to have to take the old pump to bits now though, just to see what sort of seal had failed.
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CitroJim
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Re: Mike D's boring Xsara blog

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent news Mike =D>

You're exactly like me. I'll always have something apart to determine why it failed and to see if it can be fixed :-D
Northern_Mike

Re: HDI Fuel pump leak

Post by Northern_Mike »

miked wrote:
spider wrote:I was going to say a spark plug socket (small ones) are 16mm. Will be OK with that provided you don't use an air / impact gun on it as the socket is not really up to it.
The spark plug socket is part of my halfords pro socket set so it must be indestructible if they guarantee it for life :lol:
I have destroyed Halfords Pro tools, they are not indestructible.

They've always exchanged them for new replacements immediately without any problem though!
miked
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Re: Mike D's boring Xsara blog

Post by miked »

Northern_Mike wrote: I have destroyed Halfords Pro tools, they are not indestructible.

They've always exchanged them for new replacements immediately without any problem though!
Only once had to take back the small 3/8" extension when it snapped for no reason (white lie). I took it back and asked if it was covered under guarantee and was ready to pay for a new one if I was asked how it broke but instead the guy I approached said "No, it hasn't got professional stamped on it". Walked him over to the identical set in their display cabinet and he decided he would have to get his boss out of the office, who swapped it no no questions asked.

Took the leaky cover of the old fuel pump and figured out why it leaked.

Image

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The piston cover has a rubber seal but it looked ok.

Image
The cover must channel the fuel back down this hole and the white nylon ring looks bad to me.

Image
So fished out the nylon O-ring and the blue rubber one under it.

I've searched the interweb and still haven't found anywhere I can get a kit to refurbish the pump. My wife's 807 (aka C8) has an identical pump so I'd like to save it as a spare.