Xantia 1.9TD won't start

[flygirl757]

Oh dear! It's me AGAIN.
As many of you already know from my numerous posts over the years - I have a 1994 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD (150000 miles) and it is not starting

First the good points: We have tried 2 fully charged batteries and about 9 months ago the heater (or glow) plugs were replaced. When it does work it is a beautiful runner with an even level engine noise with no blips or hic-cups. It idles like a new car. Oh! There is plenty of fuel in it - lol

Now the bad bit - lol. : Whereas it used to start on the first turn of the key it now just cranks and cranks forever with (maybe), the very odd micro-millisecond of trying to get going. We have run down two batteries (one a new one) trying. Symptoms started about a week ago but it always started eventually and once the engine was warm it was fine for the day (i.e. restarted withing a few hours when the engine was, no doubt, still warm). It is when it is left overnight in the cold English air that the problem starts when an attempt is made in the morning.

Things that seem OK: Well, everything really. A few years ago we had a sort of similar problem but it did try to start. That was fixed due to this forum when CitronJim (I think) told us it was a leaking fuel filter housing and he was RIGHT - YAY! Anyway, that seems OK and my long-suffering boyfriend has taken off the top of the filter housing and it is full of fuel so I gather we can rule out a fuel problem????????? Oh yes, about 5 years ago we replaced the Stop Solenoid. No idea if that has anything to do with it - lol.

Any help or ideas would be most appreciated.

Hope someone has an idea,

Michelle

[citronut]

when you had the glow plugs replaced did that make a difference to how it started before hand,
what brand of plugs were fitted, try checking for power at the glow plugs as the ignition is switched on,

do you have a key pad immobilisers if so maybe it has failed, in which case you need to remove the armor from the rear of the fuel pump then dispose of the immobilisers which is behind it

[Xantidote]

Two causes I'd look at to start with: the glowplugs, and the fuel supply (despite your previous work)

it now just cranks and cranks forever with (maybe), the very odd micro-millisecond of trying to get going

My TD has done this in cold weather if 2 glowplugs have failed, though it would start in the end. As a quick test, I'd check the glowplugs' control box is working, by connecting a voltmeter from earth, to the top of one of the glowplugs, and check that you are getting a voltage when you turn the key. Would also be useful to know what voltage you actually are getting. If no voltage at all, then control box failed (maybe relay contacts inside have worn away/burnt - I've known this on a BX diesel). If no voltmeter, any 12 volt bulb connected in the same manner would at least tell you if you're getting voltage to the glowplugs. Some glowplugs are better quality than others, and seem to last longer.

On fuel side, have you tried (just before starting) squeezing the black rubber squeezey bulb until it goes firms? Located near the top of the offside suspension strut.

You fixed the leaking fuel filter in the past, on Jim's suggestion. This may have been letting air into the fuel line, and it's possible you now have another air leak - a popular failure is the small black rubber tubing from the injectors back to the injection pump (and also check the blanking end piece on the nearside glowplug)


Edit:- Malcom's beaten me to it. Being an early Xantia, and presumably an early Bosch injection pump, then I doubt you'll have any armouring to worry about - I think that only came in on the later TDs

[Peter.N.]

Further to Martin's post, if you connect a volt meter between the glow plugs and earth the voltage reading can be significant. If all plugs are working you should have 10-11 volts for about 10-15 seconds, if its nearer 12v then you have plug failures.

Peter

[citroenxm]

To check for fuel drainage before you do ANY starting lift the bonnet and then pump the fuel bulb on the left side infront of the drivers sphere.. IF the fuel is not draining back then you should only be able to do TWO AND A BIT squeezes before the bulb goes hard... but if your fuel is draining back again it will take more to prime it and you will hear the fuel pumping around...

areas to cause fuel draining.. return pipe on the back of the engine where it links in a sort of U shape, it can split and left air in then the rest of the pipe above will cause a suction effect and drain the fuel from the engine..

sometime the the primer non return valve can play up and let the fuel drain..

Heater plugs can also die prematurely too.. my mums 306 went through 3 sets in a few months before it settled down and was fine for a while..

so.. check the primer for number of squeezes before it goes hard.. and check the heaters again ..are your first two points.

A proper ole Td engine has little else to stop them. if there's fuel and air and its hot it will go...

[citroenxm]

Ive a bit of a story here..

I have had a 1994 L reg TD Xantia in from a customer who have finished with it. However. I did a pump swap on it after the front seal went on it..

It was fine for about a week.. when it started giving headaches in the morning. The AA said heater plugs. So I stuck some in. Next morning car was the same! The fuel was draining down. So for a while the owner was happy to prime her up in the morning to get her going. Anyway.. I finally discovered when I did the pump swap I had over tightend the Fuel Feed and return Banjo's... in effect this had split the banjo bolt inside the pump unkown to me..

Anyway... I replaced these two banjo bolts and hey presto she was perfectly fine again... For about 3 months... Suddenly the problem returned. I replaced the heaters out of interest only to find the ones I removed were perfectly fine...

We found once again if the car primer was pumped the car would start again!

What Im saying is slightly contridicting myself because I know heaters can pop shortly after being fitted.. HOWEVER, its not always the heaters... Theres the points above I mentioned to look at.. Also check the Leak return pipes between the injectors, give them a bend side to side, if they have gone brittle and split you may not know untill you move them.. They can let air in but not fuel out.. the end one by the gearbox is a common breaker...

Ive Not had a moments in time to look at the TD I have here to see whats up.. theres more important things to do. So its currently sitting awaiting one day...

[flygirl757]

WOW! Thanks for all the very useful replies and SO SO fast. Knowing this car (it has a name but I'm not telling anyone - lol it will be something obscure so if anyone knows of some 'off the wall' reason for the problem, we are very open to suggestions. Failing that, we'll try all the suggestions. Thanks a million. I'll post the solution when it arrives. Michelle x

[citronut]

maybe its out of fuel

[citroenxm]

Where about in cheshire are you? Im only in north Wales if you find no one will touch the car because its a citroen...

[spider]

I've had the split Banjo bolt effect too, just the return one although quite how I broke it I am not sure. To be fair it was spotted early on as it was very slightly damp with fuel after a run (did not appear to drip though when running) a spare pump provided a quick replacement. I guess because I had to reuse the washers as it was a Sunday so no chance of getting any new ones although I did clean them up with a soft wire brush, I guess I should of heated them or something.

As above though the XUD there's little to really stop it assuming cam / pump timing are fine and tis got fuel (preferably without air!) / water / oil / compression it should run.

You can get one way valves in various sizes, I had to add two to the 205TD as that would sometimes have a drain back effect. Once said valves were fitted, one just before the pump inlet about 2 inches away from the pump and the other just before the fuel filter inlet, I had no more problems at all.

I'd agree heater plugs, there's no real guarantee with them especially if not a good make, personally I prefer the Bosch ones or OE fitment tends to be Beru (both are good)

[citronut]

glow plugs can fail due to how heavy handed the post nut is done up, you must not let the post turn as you tighten the 8mm nut up as it can damage the plug core

[bill hughes]

dont know if you've fixed your xantia but I had same problem, if you open drivers door and reach into car you can operatate the ignition and pump the black rubber bulb at the same time, when the bulb goes hard operate the starter if it starts you have fuel leaking back to the tank, I found that fuel was leaking from the small plug on the side of the fuel filter housing, and as the plug sits in a recess I filled the recess with clear mastic that I had as gasket sealer, this was just to test it but like a lot of temporary repairs its still there, problem solved, worth a try, good luck