Addition to Verdict,little end Bush probs

terryinfrance · Post by **terryinfrance** » 07 Oct 2003, 22:28

A further p.s to my verdict of piston slap,this time the cause!!
On removal of sloppy piston I found that the phosphor bronze little end bearing has partially broken up.
This caused the movement with the piston in situ.i.e if piston was held at a quarter to 3 it could move in a circular directio.
Amazingly there is no damage to piston or rod.
However to my horror the citroen main agent tells me on consulting his spares fiche that the rods do not show seperate little end shell bearings and you can only buy a set of four,new price 480 euros,i.e 300 plus pounds.
Has anyone succesfully replaced/had a new shell engineered.The gudgeon pin is o.k and checked with micrometer.
All suggestions welcome including offers of a set of rods in g.c.
A pal has offered to machine up a new bush but I would suspect the bearing is a hard metal shell with a coating.
A pure phosphor bronze shell would not have the strength to perform such a task???
Opinions please.
Thanks.

CITMAN · Post by **CITMAN** » 07 Oct 2003, 22:46

It might be cheaper to get low mileage secondhand engine from a damaged zx diesel, than mess about with the old and damaged unit. There might lumps of metal floating about in the oilways after the end bearing broke up ready to damage the rest of the engine i.e. main bearings.

Jonesy · Post by **Jonesy** » 08 Oct 2003, 00:34

Terry,
I think you also need to ask yourself why this has happened. I have never heard of this sort of thing happening on an XUD.
If its down to abuse/misuse then whats the condition of the rest of the engine i.e. mains, big ends etc.,
If its poor manufacturing then thats a different story. I agree with CITMAN and would try and source a decent secondhand unit. There are quite a few about. Its possible I may have a unit for sale ('89 1.9 Non TD) in a couple of months if the BX doesn't go through the MOT.

terryinfrance · Post by **terryinfrance** » 08 Oct 2003, 01:28

Thanks Citman and Jonesy.
It would appear that this was a long standing fault even poss original manufacture.
The lubricating alignment hole at the top of the conrod feeds oil from piston area to the gudgeon pin.
On inspection this hole on the bearing shell was out of alignment causing lack of oil feed to this particular gudgeon pin thus causing failure on this component whilst all others are fine.
I am inclined to try and persevere with the devil I know{now} than take a risk on an unknown quantity with a second hand engine{although have not ruled this out}
What was thought to be piston slap actually transpired to be movement due to bearing failure in con rod.
Amazingly this has been caught in time without piston/bore scoring.
The engine started perfect,ran without smoke,only rattled{obviously}like a good un.
Having stripped it to this stage and realising there are many good miles left in it yet I am taking this course.
The bearing shell is obviously a manufactured item and my guess this is possible to replace.
The technicalities of bearing shell construction and metal formulas are very complicated,way beyond my knowledge and my only hope is to find a knowledgeble engineer.
If all fails guess I will have to go the used engine road.
Many thanks for all the advice,reders please keep the ideas coming.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 08 Oct 2003, 03:22

Terry,
We had to do the same thing on a 16V engine recently. I will need to contact my son as to price, but I do know it was nothing like that you've quoted.
In his case, they were sent to a guy who does engine mods & he made up & fitted the bushes.
As I'm 'downunder' there's not much point giving you our guys name but at least you know it can be done & nowhere near the price as you quote; from memory I think it was around A$300 - A$400, or a third of your quoted price.
Alan S

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 08 Oct 2003, 21:30

Hi Terry,
I'd suggest that you took your conrod and piston to a good engine machine shop. They may well have a little end bearing that fits your conrod or alternatively could modify/make up one for you.
//NiSk

terryinfrance · Post by **terryinfrance** » 09 Oct 2003, 01:31

Thanks Alans for advice,would buy you a XXXX if you were nearer.
Thanks Nisk.
I have located a good machine shop in the depths of rural Norfolk,Engerland who can do the precision work on the rod.
What an irony,here I am in the land of the frogs with all the Pugs and Cits you could imagine,yet no one is capable of fixing a bush.
All the local mechanics look at me in amazement and wonder why I should go to so much trouble with such an old!!![1994}to them,car.
It would seem as the Euro has gone to thier heads and think we must all print them in our back rooms!!
Still,this good old boy,from carrot crunching country is going to fix it[hopefully]
My con rod will be winging its way back to my home county very soon and will return with a nice new bush.
Cheers Guys.

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 09 Oct 2003, 01:34

Why do you have the misfortune to be stuck in France?

terryinfrance · Post by **terryinfrance** » 09 Oct 2003, 21:11

Nice cheap property with loads of land,fresh air,good quality food,nice wine,easy living.2hour lunchbreaks.Workplaces closed Sunday and Mondays.35 max working week.E.U subsidies.Higher standard of living.
Bad points.un-motivated motor repair workshops.

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 09 Oct 2003, 23:25

I think the bad points out weight the good. I am biased though - used to work for Michelin in the UK until the Frenchies shut us [:(]