Buyer's Guide

davek-uk · Unread post by **davek-uk** » 03 Oct 2003, 20:22

I'm looking around to buy a Xantia Estate 1.9TD.
This excellent forum has made me a lot less scared of the Citroen HP suspension, but I know nothing about it. Could someone give me a simple guide of what to look for, what to check and how to check it so that I don't end up with trouble on day one?
I like the cosmetic mods on the post 98 facelift models but they are at the limit of my £3K. Are there any good reasons to buy one of these over the earlier model?
Many of your high mile-ers give me hope too - I do 30k miles a year and will have to keep the next car some time (I hope [:)])...
Are there any other things I have forgotten to ask?

Guru Meditation · Unread post by **Guru Meditation** » 03 Oct 2003, 20:52

From honestjohn.co.uk
What's Good
Good looking, 'different' hatchbacks and estates with excellent front-end grip, safe handling, fine ride quality out of town plus the ability to raise themselves on their suspension to clear obstacles and to sink down to the ground if required. Good rear legroom. Length 14' 7", width 5' 9", weight from 1,170kg. Estates have three lap/diagonal rear belts. Suspension never goes baggy. Suspension spheres quick, easy and cheap to replace. 112bhp 16 valve 1.8 and 135bhp 2.0 litre engines from N reg on quite sporty but can use a bit of oil in valve stem lubrication. 150bhp turbocharged 8v Activa had fantastic handling and roadholding. 194bhp 3.0 V6 was a bit overkill for this market. Facelift Feb '98 with 3-piece bumpers. Turbo-diesel automatic from Spring '98 a good cruiser. New HDI diesel engine from October 1998 best fuel miser in-CLASS. 12-year body warranty from September 1999. Not dear second-hand.

What's Bad
Hydraulic pumps can still go. ABS computers fail. Parts of more complex VSX and Activa suspension can stick. Average performance in NCAP crash tests. TD auto a bit high geared for town work (lingers in 2nd or 3rd). Clutch cable connector prone to breaking at the pedal end and, it's a long, tedious and expensive job to put right. Rate of depreciation can take you by surprise. Hatchbacks of Xantia estates apt to leak through wiper spindle seal. Very heavy depreciation and difficult to sell. Early 'K' and 'L' reg Xantias fetching as little as £500 at auction. Flood water ingress to the gearbox is a problem, causing the box to seize. Faulty ABS sensors can lead to short front brake disc life. Cat heat shield can trap moisture which can lead to rust on a car driven short distances from cold. Spate of conrod failures on 1997 -1998 R and S reg 1.9 XUTD diesels: too many to attribute merely to running with low oil levels. Seems only to affect cars built from April 1997 with DHY (not DHX) serial number engines. 17th from bottom for reliabilty in Auto Express 2002 reader survey of 100 models. Citroens generally had average warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 99.84 v/s lowest 31.93). Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk 1995-1997 petrols rated average for breakdownd and faults, poor for problems; 1995-1997 diesels rated average for breakdowns, poor for problems and faults; 1998-2000 diesels rated average for breakdowns and problems, poor for faults in 2003 Which survey.
What to Watch Out For
LX non-ABS models are the best used buy because there's less to go wrong. ABS computers are a common problem. Check spare wheel is in its underboot cradle and not nicked. Look for smoke from diesels - may be curable with a dose of injector cleaner and a new air filter. 1.6s likely to wear out first. If fitted with aircon, make sure it blows cold. If 2.0 litre petrol engine knocks, don't buy the car (see XM for reason). EU wide problem with clutch of HDIs: release bearings are failing on average at 30K miles and the hydraulic actuators at approx 70K miles. Both cause significant damage (£700 - £1000) to repair. Basically, the clutch assembly "blows-up", though not the actual clutch disc, which can have as little as 20% wear.

Jonesy · Unread post by **Jonesy** » 03 Oct 2003, 21:18

Dave,
Don't rule out the excellent 2.1TD model either. These are more difficult to get hold of but are well worth the 'hunt' if you can find one.

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 03 Oct 2003, 21:33

Be aware that the facelifted models are significantly dearer to insure than the original one. Eg a 1.9 TD pre-facelift is group 9, post facelift group 13.
Probably won't bother you too much if you've a few years NCB but it would make a fair difference to mine.

andycarter · Unread post by **andycarter** » 04 Oct 2003, 03:14

After 1998 the interior storage is better.
Electrical systems were also redesigned - as far as I know there were several individual systems (windows / locking / alarm) superceded by a single body computer which you may or may not prefer.
Some people prefer the earlier models because of the front passenger grab rail on the dash.

davek-uk · Unread post by **davek-uk** » 04 Oct 2003, 05:40

Thanks, that has given me something to think about... I don't like the idea of a 'body' computer; simple stuff is a lot easier for the DIYer. Just one of the beauties of the AX (well, maybe the only one [;)]).
Now, for the real cruncher - just a simple question [:D]. How do I test the suspension etc to see that everything works as it should?

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 04 Oct 2003, 07:02

Simple manual test :
With engine idle - normal drive height obtained - press each corner of car. Should be easy to press down some 2-3" front - some 3-4" rear.
Then sit on each bumper - your full weight. The car should first sink - then after 5-10sec's - it should regain height.
When jumping off - the car should instantly jump up in heght - and then after some 10 sec's slowly sink back in height.
Also with engine idle - and nothing activated - the ticking from the hydraulic system should have intervals ranging from at least 30sec's & up.
Best driving test is finding a road with speed bumps. Hydraulic Citroens floats over these at speed - opposed to sprung suspension cars.
There should be no creaking/moaning from the suspension when the car is driven - or height setting altered - but some noise may be heard when the height is stabilising at full.

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 04 Oct 2003, 15:44

If you out looking to a diesel Xantia, its well worth finding a 2.1 TD12 - that's just a fantastic engine. Mine (albeit in an XM) has run 500,000 km in 10 years with very few problems AND the 2.1 is more frugal than the 1.9.
//NiSk

davek-uk · Unread post by **davek-uk** » 06 Oct 2003, 15:22

Thanks for all your comments.
I had considered the 2.1TD but I was put off by discussions in this forum that said you could not remove the head with the engine in place. I have had too many head gasket problems in the past to risk this (the AX throws them regularly). As I do 30k miles a year and will have to keep this next car for at least three years, so it is likely to see the 200k mile mark before I can afford to change it. Too many miles for any drastic DIY limitations.
Now all I need to do is find a relatively low mileage and tidy car with a responsive and well-maintained engine that passes Anders' hydraulic tests (thanks for an idiots guide). When I do I'll take the plunge (into the deep end) and join you all in endless hours of car maintenance and fault diagnosis...

Unread post by **RichardW** » 06 Oct 2003, 15:33

There's plenty of rubbish out there, so be wary of paying too much for something that's not A1. Good cars can be had for silly money (eg I bought a 95 TD LX for £1500 last year, and there is a good looking 96 TD SX for sale in Glasgow this week for £1295!!), so don't waste your time looking at anything with 120k miles for £1500.
I wouldn't be too worried about having to take the engine out of a 2.1 to do the head gasket - the job is a pain on the 1.9 anyway, so if you had to take the engine out you would get the opportunity to do the clutch, timing belt, heater pipes down the back of the engine, the hydraulic return pipes - the time saved would more than make up for having to take the engine out!
Richard

davek-uk · Unread post by **davek-uk** » 20 Oct 2003, 19:34

Well, I've done it! Brought a 1.9TD Temptation 2 Estate at a sliver over £2k. 89k on the clock and a FSH. Thanks for all of your comments and the encouragement that I have experienced folk to talk to when things get rough.
The car was the best of a number I had viewed. Every car I saw (P to S reg) had stiff or solid front suspension and a clicking of 7-ish seconds - do I assume the front spheres don't last as long or is it just coincidence that at between 65 and 120k miles they need changing and that was when the owners wanted rid of their cars?
The car drives well and everything seems to work and it doesn't drop anything on the drive. The clicking is too fast at 15-20 secs and I guess I'm likely to need front spheres; I also need a Haynes manual!
Now my basic understanding of the HP system is that the pump keeps up the system pressure using the accumulator sphere as a pressure reservoir and as such frequent pumps either mean the acc. sphere is faulty or there is a pressure leak in the system. As I'm not loosing fluid any leak must be returning in the normal way, which indicated wear in a component. Or perhaps just an acc. sphere renewal. Is this roughly accurate?

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 21 Oct 2003, 02:37

Well Dave your basic understanding seems sound enough, since you don't know the acc. sphere's history it would be wise to stick a new one on and take it from there, just make sure its a recently manufactured one as they loose gas just sat on the shelf for long periods.
Dave