New alternator needed ?

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charentejohn
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 14:58

New alternator needed ?

Unread post by charentejohn »

I think I know the answer.................. :(
Ignition light is on and when I tested the battery and alternator, battery reads 12.7V and Alternator outputting 10.6V, so the red light on the dash is correct.

I have located one here in France for 156 Euros (about £130), exchange unit done by 'Elstock' as this is the cheapest. Bosch and Valeo are 100 Euros more.
Checked part no on Citroen service and it says 5705 4F which this is, 150A unit on a 2002 HDI 90.

Before I buy, any ideas on what else it could be. The 10.6V was measured at the alternator, engine running, alternator connected up (so connected to electrical system).
I assume it is just brushes or maybe the diode block ? but is it possible to just replace these, probably easier to get a recon one with 2 yr guarantee.
Just checking in to see if there is anything I can test / check before ordering.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi
Xantia HDI 90SX C3 2005 and C3 2006 both 1.4i sensodrives
citronut
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by citronut »

haven't you got an auto electrician over there that could fix your original unit
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
Hell Razor5543
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by Hell Razor5543 »

Quite some time back I had this problem on my BX. Replacing the brushes cost me £15, and sorted the problem out. The BX had done 145,000 miles when the problem started.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.2HDi VTX+

Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
charentejohn
Posts: 479
Joined: 16 May 2011, 14:58

Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by charentejohn »

Hmmm.....good points raised.
Since I will be doing the work myself, why don't I remove the Alternator and see if I can fix it. Ironically I am a retired electrician.
I may as well take a look as I will need it as a 'trade in' on the recon unit anyway.
I will check around here for suppliers of brushes. A bit different here as people who have the brushes would expect to do the work, then again for an hour's labour they can do it.

I will do a bit of reading up on removing it and see what parts I should replace while I am at it, drive belt is an obvious one.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi
Xantia HDI 90SX C3 2005 and C3 2006 both 1.4i sensodrives
charentejohn
Posts: 479
Joined: 16 May 2011, 14:58

Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by charentejohn »

Better yet ?
Just been looking at Youtube videos of brush changes and I think this could be done without removing the alternator - true or false ?
Should be able to remove the rear cover and brush carrier, no only remains to identify the make of Alternator I have.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi
Xantia HDI 90SX C3 2005 and C3 2006 both 1.4i sensodrives
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uhn113x
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by uhn113x »

charentejohn wrote:Ignition light is on and when I tested the battery and alternator, battery reads 12.7V and Alternator outputting 10.6V, so the red light on the dash is correct.
.... The 10.6V was measured at the alternator, engine running, alternator connected up (so connected to electrical system).
That's rather strange, as surely the only connection from the alternator and battery is quite a hefty piece of cable which shouldn't be losing over 2 volts! :shock:

I'd be investigating a bit more before doing anything to the alternator - wiring? Connections?
Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
1982 Dyane
1997 ZX Dimension
Hell Razor5543
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by Hell Razor5543 »

I don't know if these will help, as I don't know what make of alternator your car has got. However, these show as for HDi engines, so they are worth looking at;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-VALEO-ALT ... 2a232ea4bb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.2HDi VTX+

Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
citronut
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by citronut »

you will need to check the condition of the slip rings before fitting new brush's, if there is a deep groove worn in the slip rings you will be best getting them machined down or replaced
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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Sean602
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by Sean602 »

ive had good resuts holding the rotor in the pillar drill (threaded nose in the chuck and tail bearing in the vise) and using some abrasive paper on the copper, but im usually taking the alternator apart and fitting new bearings too - only adds a few more ££ to the job
kissing the lash
white van (turbo, computer and built by Citroen, what could possibly go wrong!)
orange 2cv
blue 2cv( been to the Sahara and back)
red Dyane( in bits)
Skoda (thank goodness there is a teutonic vehicle on the drive)
Stainless Siemens fridge freezer
charentejohn
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by charentejohn »

Thanks, I have been looking around and generally messing about with the car, the story so far.......
I saw this video on installing Valeo brushes, very informative. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Sadly I think I have a Bosch alternator.

I took off the leads to the alternator and tested again and got 0V so good chance the brushes are no longer touching. The 10V would be due to various electronics / electrical parts using power (V=IR)
When I have the back off I will check the coils are ok and clean up the slip rings.

So far I have removed the Oil filter so I could access the rear of the Alternator. Struggling to remove the nuts holding on the back as I need a box spanner due to small recessed nuts being used, why oh why do they do this :roll:
Once the cover is removed I can remove the whole rectifier / brushes unit and replace it. As ever I need it off to get part nos from it but am pretty sure I know what it is.
Just tedious that they recess the nuts into plastic cover to make it difficult, good old dynamo had 2 bars with nuts on the end and took about 20 mins to completely dismantle.
Once this is off should be easy enough to change, just a pain the car is now dead in the water until I can find spanners (no such thing here in France) to fit.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi
Xantia HDI 90SX C3 2005 and C3 2006 both 1.4i sensodrives
addo
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Unread post by addo »

Bosch alts are very easy to kit out, plenty of genuine and imitation bits to suit as well.
citronut
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by citronut »

the rectifier and brush holder/regulator are not one unit, the brush holder and regulator are though,

if you send me the last 8 digits of your chassis/VIN No. i will get the OE part No. for what ever components they show as separate parts,
then you can aim these at any suppliers you have over your side of the water
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
charentejohn
Posts: 479
Joined: 16 May 2011, 14:58

Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by charentejohn »

Thanks, I have the part off now (details below) and can recommend the videos on the subject, not ideal putting in URLs as they change but search Youtube for 'WestronicsIrl' and you will find them. His name is Martin, he also does starter motor videos etc.
The one I used was titled 'alternator not charging diagnose and repair PART1' which appled to my alternator.
Managed to remove it which made my new year's eve, start the year with a positive repair.

So to remove the Regulator/brush holder is as follows.
Remove the oil filter to give access to most :( of the rear of the alternator.
Remove the two nuts on the back. Low profile and in a recess so not easy, box spanner or socket (modified with a grinder) as I used.
Also there is a phillips head bolt which is blocked by the casting for the oil filter. I put a small phillips head in a spanner and taped it in place.
With much muttering I did manage to unscrew it 1/4 turn at a time.
Left partly removed as the cover can then be swung back out of the way revealing the regulator. Didn't want to remove the screw as guessing it would be a pain to put back.
There are 3 phillips head bolts holding the regulator, once remove it just slides off sideways.

On removing mine I could see debris in the socket where the brushes sit, so vaccumed it out.
Slip rings are ok, as shown in the Video what was and wasn't acceptable.
Regulator wasn't, one brush is fine but the other must have stuck and overheated burning the brush housing which was crumbling.
No damage done by debris so just awaiting the replacement which I am sure should solve the problem.

I reckon, with the right tools, about 30 mins to remove filter and regulator, I am hoping about the same to replace them.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi
Xantia HDI 90SX C3 2005 and C3 2006 both 1.4i sensodrives
citronut
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by citronut »

glad to hear you have probably saved yourself a pile of dosh,

HAPPY NEW YEAR
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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myglaren
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Re: New alternator needed ?

Unread post by myglaren »

This one John?