Another C5 mysterious expiry

[Richard Stevens]

After a few miles (in cold fog) of a longish journey 3 weeks ago, the engine (1.6HDI) cut out a few times when changing down on hilly roads. Restarted okay, decided to carry on, seemed okay as operating temps reached.
Later found a lack of power on the motorway, car wouldn't sustain 75mph in cruise control going up inclines. Next morning wouldn't start - at least, did start but died after a couple of seconds with a nasty tapping.
Got towed to a Citroen main dealer, and to cut a longer story short, they replaced the HP fuel pump, timing belt, pulley and water pump, plus a fuel pressure sensor. They said they also suspected fuel contamination. I have a sample, not tested yet.
Got the car back supposedly fixed (don't ask the cost!) after 5 days.
Seemed ok, but the next day after about 200 miles a tapping noise started but went away on occasion (which made me discount big-ends). Noise linked only to engine RPM. Gradually got louder. Had I been in the UK I would have stopped, but I tried to nurse it to the channel tunnel. It died 10 miles short of Calais. Car is now back at home, not worth repairing.
All this happened in France making the whole episode fairly nightmarish, not to say expensive.
The breakdown cover was excellent, but the nausea and waiting were a real pain.
I have since been told that the 1.6 engine is prone to big-end failures; my local garage now confides that they had the same problem in the summer on a Picasso. I have seen how the big-end bearing shells are free to rotate and so could run quietly during an extended failure. But what would be the cause in an engine only having done 75000?

Now I have to scrap the car/recoup what I can from it.

I have enjoyed my C5, and am looking at another, but the 2.0 diesel this time. One I have seen for sale claims to have a 138bhp 2 litre, SOHC 16 valve engine. It's on an 06 plate.
I thought the 16-valve engine was the DOHC type.
So, which diesel engine does NOT have a DPF?

Engine experts, advice please!

Good motoring
RS

[JohnD]

I thought the 16-valve engine was the DOHC type.
So, which diesel engine does NOT have a DPF?


RS

Yes the 16 valve 138 engine is the DOHC and it does have a Particle filter. To get an engine without the filter you would have to go back to pre 2004 and get the 8 valve 110 or 90bhp engine. Frankly the 90 would be under powered in the C5. But if the particle filter is a bother to you on a 138 engine, you can always get rid of it. Some guys on here have removed it themselves. Others like myself have paid someone to do it. Around 200 - 250 quid. What's required is for the filter to be removed and some holes drilled through the block - then replaced. Then the ECU needs all reference to the regeneration process removed from it.

[Richard Stevens]

Thanks JohnD, I was hoping to find one version without the DPF, which has been a bit of a pain on my C5. Yes, 90bhp wouldn't be enough.

I have read advice on this forum before regarding disabling (by removing the innards) the DPF - might think further on this. How do most owners feel about the likelyhood of having to replace the thing as routine? Perhaps mine was particularly troublesome - certainly the Eolys fluid did not seem to get used enough, there was half a tank left at 73000 miles.

Perhaps the DPF is less of an issue on the 2 litre engines?
Also I would think the 16 valve engine is superior to the 8 valve?

Cheers, Happ Christmas!

[Peter.N.]

I have two C5s at present, a 2.2 Hdi and a 2.0 8 valve Hdi which I bought as a replacement for the 2.2, its a much easier car to work on and much better on fuel so I would stick with the pre 05s and the 8 valve engine, no FAP and much more room to get round it. The 110 hp doesn't have a FAP but it does have a DMF but mine has done 188k miles and is still going fine.

Peter

[aneesh84]

I just bought a C5 facelift version from 2005. It has 2.0 l 16 Valve 138 hp engine but comes without a DPF. So such variants are at least existing in Portugal.

[GiveMeABreak]

What's your VIN as a matter of interest?

[aneesh84]

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

General information
PRODUCT TYPE CAR
COMMERCIAL MARQUE/COMPONENT TYPE CITROEN
VEHICLE FAMILY C5 II
SILHOUETTE 5 DOOR SALOON
TRIM LEVEL HIGH MEDIUM
ENGINE DW10BTED4 TURBO DIESEL WITHOUT FAP
TRANSMISSION BVM6
PAINT TYPE METALLIC PAINTWORK
BODY COLOUR EXL - PAINT OBSIDIAN BLACK
INTERIOR TRIM TYPE VELOUR OTTI "PZ"
UPHOLSTERY COLOUR "FC"
GEARBOX (CHARACTERISTICS) BVM ML6 CL
ENGINE (TYPE) EW/DW
OTHER BADGE, " MISC. " WITHOUT FULLER BADGE
BADGE C5

[GiveMeABreak]

So yours is a Euro 3 Standard vehicle - I think they changed to the stricter Euro 4 standards early 2005 and your car was produced February 2005, so probably one of the last few stocks of this emissions control system before the change.

[aneesh84]

Lucky for me! Though according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... _standards) Euro 4 was enforced from January 2005.

Only think I need to worry about is the Dual Mass Flywheel. Do you have any recommendations whether to go for a LUK Dual mass or a Valeo conversion kit? In 1-2 years I will be needing a change. It has done 270000 Kms on original flywheel and clutch already

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, the standard was from Jan 2005. but they probably have some tolerance for stockpiled vehicles.

Regarding the DMF - it has to be down to your choice. DMFs are there for a reason, to dampen the engine vibration and protect the transmission / drive systems. Expect more noise and vibration if you do - this varies from car to car, but there is always a risk of damaging the said components. If you have gotten this mileage already on the original - that's pretty good going to be honest especially for that sort of mileage, given the age of the car. If you are going to be keeping it, personally, I would want peace of mind and wouldn't want a conversion at this stage - but that's me.

[JohnD]

But if the particle filter is a bother to you on a 138 engine, you can always get rid of it. .

How the rules have changed in 5 years! Now - not only is it illegal to remove the particle filter, but if your insurance company became aware they would most certainly void your cover.

[GiveMeABreak]

But if the particle filter is a bother to you on a 138 engine, you can always get rid of it. .

How the rules have changed in 5 years! Now - not only is it illegal to remove the particle filter, but if your insurance company became aware they would most certainly void your cover.

Yes, covered that in my thread here on DPF removal:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... PF+removal

Depending on what they come up with to check for removal, it could be an expensive decision if you've had this done!

[elma]

My personal opinion on dmf is if it is fitted to the car then that's what to fit. The exception is if a car is used for towing in which case I'd fit a solid flywheel. Dmf seem to be devoured by tow cars, I think it's from reversing with a braked trailer.

[aneesh84]

Thank you for your responses! A DMF it is then. It lasted a long time on my car, though the previous owner was mostly using it for cross Europe driving.