Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

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delapoer
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Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by delapoer »

Can anyone tell me the service times for this engine (in a C3 Picasso if that is relevant)? In particular I would like to know timing belt, EOLYS and FAP timings. I think the timing belt is 150K miles or ten years.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by 411514 »

You are technically correct with the timing belt interval, although if i was you id change it long before 150k, say 100k.
In terms of the fap and Eolys im not sure that there are set intervals as both depend largely on how the car is driven but i believe that on the whole the Eolys needs refilling at around 70-80k and the fap is normally needing replacment at around 150k, although some do fail earlier.
Make sure you keep on top of the oil changes with the 1.6, you would be well advised to change the oil every 6k ish miles to avoid turbo trouble,
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by delapoer »

Thanks for the advice, the EOLYS and FAP intervals are lot less often than my C5 was (50K miles) which is very good. Any idea why the turbo is so troublesome on this engine? I just got my C5 serviced by a Citroen garage and had no trouble with the turbo itself (although I did have trouble with the vacuum hose to it).
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by spider »

I think the turbo concerns are due to the lengthy oil change intervals giving rise to sludge / carbon. The little engine has to work quite hard (it is producing a lot of power for a 1.6, only a few years ago a petrol 1.6 would not of reached these power levels never mind a diesel)

I do concur regular oil + filter changes would not go amiss. I'd want to do it every 6K on one of these although I guess every 9K is OK given the 'recommended' interval is a lot more.

As far as I recall it was one of the models they sent a tech sheet out about, saying you cannot suction drain it (simply as that may leave some in the sump at a guess)
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by SaabC5 »

The oil turns gelatinous if you don't change it often enough. I've seen a 307HDi with apparently no oil in it until the sump was pulled off. The oil inside was like a rubber ball consistency and had to be heated up and then literally peeled off. :shock:
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by spider »

SaabC5 wrote:The oil turns gelatinous if you don't change it often enough. I've seen a 307HDi with apparently no oil in it until the sump was pulled off. The oil inside was like a rubber ball consistency and had to be heated up and then literally peeled off. :shock:
Now you mentioned it I remember seeing that thread a while back.

I still sort of think longer service intervals are to reduce the 'cost' of ownership for fleet buyers (who'd factor in servicing costs as part of the total), as they only tend to hang on to them for 3 years at most.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by daviemck2006 »

We have the same engine in the wife's MINI. I changed the oil at a year old and 9000 miles, even though it has a variable service interval and a 7 year MINI TLC package for servicing. The computer did not advise a service due until it was two years and 19000 miles. This would have been far too long for the 1'st oil in the car, in fact for any oil. I shall be changing it again at 3 yrs old regardless what the mileage or trip computer is saying.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by spider »

It was not that long ago we had cars back in at 500 miles (possibly 1000 miles) for their first oil change. Then again they did have a tiny 'running in' oil filter fitted. Then they removed the oil change from the first service visit (was a free one regardless)

9K seems a sensible balance between practicality and time, for a modern design of engine.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by Northern_Mike »

A friend's Mondeo 2.0TDCI just last week had it's first oil change in 150k/5 years recently. He gave up looking after it when it passed 125,000 miles, with the intention of driving it into the ground and getting something else. It's still going strong on 280,000 miles, but it got a service and a new battery as an early christmas present. No ill effects noted. DMF is apparently getting a little noisy, but that's nothing to do with the lack of servicing.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by delapoer »

It seems strange that PSA can make engines with weak points (like the turbo failure in the 1.6 HDi) after decades of making diesel turbo engines. I have also read that the oil change has to follow a very strict procedure including getting the oil warm and not using a pump to extract it. Does anyone know what it is that actually kills the turbo? It seems to be down to carbon in the oil but is the carbon blocking a pipe or is it causing excessive wear in the turbo, or is it something else? If it is wear it seems odd because the problem doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad on other engines. Also, is the problem the same in the 8V compared with the 16V versions?
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Post by addo »

According to folks including our esteemed Lighty, the turbo failure is a result of trying too hard at building a durable engine. A small internal gauze strainer in a banjo bolt attaching the turbo oil feed, needs removal or it surely blocks up with aged oil. I believe there was a TSB on it...
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by delapoer »

I'd be VERY interested if you can point me at any information on this subject? Replacing something that simple every now and again would be far better than having a turbo go!
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by mooseshaver »

My brother has changed one if these turbos at Peugeot's request, and also had to change all the stuff that leads up to it like the oil pump. The turbo failed again in a few miles and Peugeot said it needs a new turbo and a new engine now.
Apparently whatever blocks the pilfered pipe can float around the engine an kill the new turbo later.
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by spider »

Google for "1.6 HDi turbo failure" about 1/2 way down the page of results, there's a .pdf. I cannot get the direct link to its too full of entities to manually sort out quickly. Formatting has been lost but anyway...
Tech Bulletins/Special Offers
PSA 1.6 Hdi Turbocharger Failure & Fitting Warning
ATTENTION: PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE FITTING THESE TURBOS TO YOUR CUSTOMERS VEHICLES
PSA 1.6HDi TURBOS, 2004- ONWARDS
753420-5005S & 49173-07506 110 & 90 bhp
The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate with high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this.
However there is a drawback to this, reports from in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure.
The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination. However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to.
We have found that the carbon build up in this application is particularly difficult to remove. To try to eliminate the potential for further turbo failure the following must be undertaken by the garage, in addition to the normal recommended turbo fitting instructions:
TURBO OIL FEED PIPE & BANJO BOLTS MUST BE CHANGED. OIL PUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CHECKED.
SUMP MUST BE REMOVED AND OIL STRAINER (PICK UP) SHOULD BE CLEANED/REPLACED BEFORE RE-FITTING NEW TURBO TO REMOVE RESIDUAL CARBON/SLUDGE BUILD UP.
OIL COOLER AND FILTER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CLEANED. REMOVE CHARGE AIR COOLER, DRAIN OFF ANY OIL INSIDE AND CLEAN THOROUGHLY. CHECK AND CLEAN ALL INLET AND OUTLET HOSES. IF OIL HAS LEAKED FROM PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED TURBO OR ENGINE INTO EXHAUST, CHECK EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR CONTAMINATION/BLOCKAGE (CATALYST, DPF etc.) REMOVE BRAKE VACUUM PUMP TO CHECK FOR DEBRIS/CARBON AND CLEAN AS NECESSARY. FIT NEW OIL FILTER AND OIL. CHECK FUEL INJECTOR GASKETS ARE NOT BURNT OR COMPROMISED. REPLACE AS NECESSARY OIL FLOW MUST BE CHECKED: FIT TURBO TO ENGINE LEAVING OIL RETURN PIPE OFF INSTALL A LONGER OIL RETURN LINE AND FEED INTO SUITABLE CONTAINER START ENGINE AND IDLE FOR 60 SECONDS, THEN SWITCH OFF ENGINE MEASURE VOLUME OF OIL IN CONTAINER 60 SECONDS OF IDLE SHOULD PRODUCE AT LEAST 0.3 LITRES OF OIL. REPEAT TEST TWO OR THREE TIMES TO CONFIRM OIL FLOW IS CORRECT DURING THIS TEST, DO NOT ALLOW ENGINE TO RUN BELOW MINIMUM OIL LEVEL!! VEHICLE SHOULD BE DRIVEN 20 to 30 MILES THEN THE OIL/FILTER REPLACED AGAIN.
Even after all the above has been carried out we cannot guarantee all carbon/sludge will be removed and you could still suffer a premature turbo failure. We feel that due to the possibility of further turbo failures on this engine it is only right to inform you before you purchase a replacement turbo for your customer. Currently we are experiencing a 15% failure rate of units we supply for this engine.
Please feel free to speak to our engineers or sales team if you would like to discuss this issue further. Any turbo returned under warranty will be subject to our standard terms and conditions. We would also like to assure you that this is the only engine we have experienced these failure rates with. We as a company will always inform you of any ongoing issues to allow you to make the right judgement call for what you deem correct for your business.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Re: Service intervals 1.6 HDi 8V

Post by delapoer »

It doesn't look good does it? And it also seems that replacing the turbo won't necessarily fix the fault for long. I wonder if the problem has been solved in later engines?
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