Folks,
The previous owner had the large rad. repalced at 41K
It has just started leaking from the centre (not edges) at 76K.
Any comparable experiences?
Will Barrs "Stop Leak" do any harm? I need the car next week.
Anti-freeze used and coolant changed regularly.
(what are these radiators made of??!!)
rg
2.5 Radiator Gone Again...
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
-
NiSk
- Posts: 1422
- Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 20:11
- x 1
-
rg
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 02:02
Anders,
Stone Damage:- Difficult to tell without taking the rad off. I doubt it, as access through the vents appears difficult for flying objects. But always possibile.
I have just dropped in at my local Citroen independent specialist. He has added some bright green stuff made by Forte in the UK which has appeared to stop the leak. He swears by this stuff, and has had significant successes with it, particularly with heater matrices.
XM 2.5 radiators are notorious for failure, it seems. My indy says that he has seen corroded radiators with fins literally dropping off, but still water-tight. Conversely, the XM ones look new, but leak badly.
The Citroen chap is Dave Stott in Middlesbrough.
rg
Stone Damage:- Difficult to tell without taking the rad off. I doubt it, as access through the vents appears difficult for flying objects. But always possibile.
I have just dropped in at my local Citroen independent specialist. He has added some bright green stuff made by Forte in the UK which has appeared to stop the leak. He swears by this stuff, and has had significant successes with it, particularly with heater matrices.
XM 2.5 radiators are notorious for failure, it seems. My indy says that he has seen corroded radiators with fins literally dropping off, but still water-tight. Conversely, the XM ones look new, but leak badly.
The Citroen chap is Dave Stott in Middlesbrough.
rg
-
rossd
- Posts: 420
- Joined: 16 Mar 2001, 20:18
-
rg
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 02:02
Ross,
This sounds like the kind or rad. that my indy mentioned. No problem with external fins coming off at all. After all, the gauge of metal is thin, and the things sit out in salt/and muck. My query and concern is about internal corrosion...
Fins can fall off, if they wish, but just don't leak! Please!
rg
This sounds like the kind or rad. that my indy mentioned. No problem with external fins coming off at all. After all, the gauge of metal is thin, and the things sit out in salt/and muck. My query and concern is about internal corrosion...
Fins can fall off, if they wish, but just don't leak! Please!
rg
-
adrianeaton
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 06 Mar 2001, 17:57
My BX 16V has gone through 3 Ordanez (OE) radiators in 77k miles. The first one that it left the factory with lasted 60k miles - the second lasted about 10 months before it started to leak along the bottom seam and around the edges!!
The third has been in the car for less than a year but appears to be OK. Amusingly when I took the 2nd one out I found the build date was one day later than the third one sitting in its box ready to go in (both '98)!
When I fitted the third I went to the lengths of using demineralised water and pre-mixing all the antifreeze before filling, and so far so good. It probably helps that the car only gets used in good weather and does 3k a year at most. The second rad was in the car when I used it year round so was exposed to our winter salt etc.
Adrian
The third has been in the car for less than a year but appears to be OK. Amusingly when I took the 2nd one out I found the build date was one day later than the third one sitting in its box ready to go in (both '98)!
When I fitted the third I went to the lengths of using demineralised water and pre-mixing all the antifreeze before filling, and so far so good. It probably helps that the car only gets used in good weather and does 3k a year at most. The second rad was in the car when I used it year round so was exposed to our winter salt etc.
Adrian
-
alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
I have a different set of circumstances but there is a parrallel in some respects. We don't get the salty snowy roads, just the opposite, but the air in these coastal towns is so salty I've seen gutters rusted off houses and cars left outside turn to piles of red dust real quick, so we also have problems with both internal & external corrosion.
If I have cause to remove my radiator on any of my cars for any reason, I always keep a couple of cans of cheapy aerosol spray enamel on hand and blast a coat all over them before I refit to the car. It makes the car look a bit swish when you see a nice shiny black radiator through the grille or when you look under the bonnet as well as giving it some protection from the harsh salty/sandy air.
As far as internal corrosion goes, in most cases there is a cause that has been overlooked.
Most if not all car makers include somewhere in their manuals a recommended coolant mix (ie) 50% glycol to 50% water (as an example) but most owners will go to the local auto store & buy a premix special with no idea or interest in what the make up of the premix is. Often in cases of "no brand" or unknown stuff, the mix can & often is as low as 10% coolant - 90% water so it's not giving real good protection. If this is then topped up om occasions, using plain water, it's only a matter of time before the mix is negligable amount of coolant to 99% water. This is bad enough, but if <b>tap water</b> has been used, this is often acidic in structure and when this is added to the mix of various metals in the modern engine, then this is where the electrolysis begins to eat away at all the internal parts. Naturally, the parts making the easiest targets are the thin walled particularly aluminium or alu based alloys such as radiator cores and heater matrix.
If you must buy a pre-mix, check it's consistency on the label before you purchase & see if it is up to manufacturers specs. From memory, on a BX 16V, with all alloy motor, the mix is 50/50.
When using a concentrate, firstly check the type. There are two types normally available, Glycol or OAT.
Glycol has been bagged for years, unjustly in my opinion whilst OAT its competitor I have found can tend to slime up the cooling system. Either way <b>the most important thing is</b>to be sure you use a <i>demineralised water</i>. Some people even catch their own rainwater in plastic so as to have some on hand. This is OK providing there are no industrial pollutants in the rain water.
Presently I'm running a "95% Coolspec Glycol" at a 50/50 rate in my 16V. I top up when necessary with demineralised water and as I bought the Glycol in a 5 litre bottle, I occasionally top up with the Glycol to try & maintain the consistency.
It's often said that coolants topped up with water go acidic; that is true, they do but there's nothing mystical about this. The acid is added as soon as you put tap water in your cooling system.
Hope that explains it all.
Alan S
If I have cause to remove my radiator on any of my cars for any reason, I always keep a couple of cans of cheapy aerosol spray enamel on hand and blast a coat all over them before I refit to the car. It makes the car look a bit swish when you see a nice shiny black radiator through the grille or when you look under the bonnet as well as giving it some protection from the harsh salty/sandy air.
As far as internal corrosion goes, in most cases there is a cause that has been overlooked.
Most if not all car makers include somewhere in their manuals a recommended coolant mix (ie) 50% glycol to 50% water (as an example) but most owners will go to the local auto store & buy a premix special with no idea or interest in what the make up of the premix is. Often in cases of "no brand" or unknown stuff, the mix can & often is as low as 10% coolant - 90% water so it's not giving real good protection. If this is then topped up om occasions, using plain water, it's only a matter of time before the mix is negligable amount of coolant to 99% water. This is bad enough, but if <b>tap water</b> has been used, this is often acidic in structure and when this is added to the mix of various metals in the modern engine, then this is where the electrolysis begins to eat away at all the internal parts. Naturally, the parts making the easiest targets are the thin walled particularly aluminium or alu based alloys such as radiator cores and heater matrix.
If you must buy a pre-mix, check it's consistency on the label before you purchase & see if it is up to manufacturers specs. From memory, on a BX 16V, with all alloy motor, the mix is 50/50.
When using a concentrate, firstly check the type. There are two types normally available, Glycol or OAT.
Glycol has been bagged for years, unjustly in my opinion whilst OAT its competitor I have found can tend to slime up the cooling system. Either way <b>the most important thing is</b>to be sure you use a <i>demineralised water</i>. Some people even catch their own rainwater in plastic so as to have some on hand. This is OK providing there are no industrial pollutants in the rain water.
Presently I'm running a "95% Coolspec Glycol" at a 50/50 rate in my 16V. I top up when necessary with demineralised water and as I bought the Glycol in a 5 litre bottle, I occasionally top up with the Glycol to try & maintain the consistency.
It's often said that coolants topped up with water go acidic; that is true, they do but there's nothing mystical about this. The acid is added as soon as you put tap water in your cooling system.
Hope that explains it all.
Alan S
-
RichardW
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 12440
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
- x 1430
Most tap water in the UK is actually ALKALINE - it contains lime. However, either is as bad, as anything away from ideal pH for a cooling system (can't remember what I've read here, but I seem to remember it's on the alkaline side) will start to cause corrosion. 'Antifreeze' (for want of a better word) contains chemicals called buffers - these react with acids or alkalines in order to maintain a constant pH in the system - as the glycol gets heated up it breaks down and makes acid components, which the buffers correct to maintain the ideal pH. Once you have exhausted these buffers the pH is no longer in control and begins to fall - cue engine corrosion starting! This is the reason for changing the coolant at 2 year intervals. Sticking in tap water that is particularly 'hard' will use up more of the buffers than water that is 'soft'. Best prevention is to change the coolant regularly!
Richard
Richard
-
rg
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 02:02
-
RichardW
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 12440
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
- x 1430
Try this link which gives pretty good information about antifreeze:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr110046.htm
Suggests pH should be about 10.5.
Richard
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr110046.htm
Suggests pH should be about 10.5.
Richard
-
rossd
- Posts: 420
- Joined: 16 Mar 2001, 20:18
-
jeremy
- Posts: 3959
- Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
- x 2
Aluminium is a strange metal and from what I remember exhibits both acid and alkaline behaviour. The result is that it will corrode under just about any conditions but its saving grace is that it forms a very strong oxide film that protects it. This film may be enhanced by anodisation to produce bright finishes after polishing and is the reason the stuff is difficult to paint or weld.
Don't suppose this helps at all but the stuff's determined to corrode away under most circumstances.
jeremy
Don't suppose this helps at all but the stuff's determined to corrode away under most circumstances.
jeremy
-
rossd
- Posts: 420
- Joined: 16 Mar 2001, 20:18
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1