Re: replacement xantia required. Advice please 2

isisalar · Post by **isisalar** » 28 Oct 2012, 12:39

I started this thread recently and whilst it threw up some good information as I'd hoped, it did go off on some diverse tangents, so lets start again.
I have enjoyed the 'floaty' Citroen ride very much in my bx, not quite as much in my xantia lx saloon, and not at all in my VSX estate. In fact I hate it. It's spheres are ok and more than one well respected expert has told me it's quite normal having bounced the corners as a test. To me it feels like a BMW with sports suspension. The car is going to the scrapyard as soon as I find a replacement. It's beyond saving before anyone asks.
I thought before the last discussion that I hated this car because it was a hydractive, and the complexity of it still makes me wary, but it transpires that the harsh ride at low speeds may be due more to the stiffer anti roll bars fitted to the estate. Perhaps I hate this car for the wrong reason.
Can anyone say how the two(ARB's) differ in terms of diameter/stiffness? Or how an estate rides in comparison to a saloon generally.
Pushing the corners down on my lx saloon was very easy, you could tell this was a car with soft suspension. By comparison the VSX estate takes at least twice as much effort and could only be described as stiff.
Can anyone say how the 'spring rates' differ between the two?
Is there anyone with a well sorted Xantia estate, within striking distance of north London, that I could try?
One of the replies to the previous post described how well a car had ridden with the ARB disconnected. If I took an angle grinder to the ARB on the VSX (bearing in mind it's going to the scrapyard) as an experiment are there any dangers? Does it serve any other purpose?
I've seen a couple of estates but they have had the usual corrosion in the doorshut/rear wheel arch area. Is this inevitable, how repairable is it, and is it an mot failure?
Anyone got a well sorted DIESEL estate for sale. Don't mind traveling for the right car.
Kind regards
Paul

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 28 Oct 2012, 13:31

Still think your VSX electrovalves are US which is why your current estate
is riding in a rigid fashion. Anyhow moving on as you've made your mind up:

ARB /droplinks
I've driven various Citroens with the roll bars either missing before discovery
of their failure etc and the ride will feel fantastic (1 was an AWOL front drop link
on an XM 24v v6) and snapped on a CX and there will be no immediate danger
although heaven help you were there an accident and it transpires it was a
known deficiency in your car when the insurance company looks closely at it.

Spring rates:
The difference is the jet of the sphere where the normal suspension will have
a bigger opening compared to hydractive BUT the feed between the corner
and centre spheres on a hydractive spec car is far larger allowing fluid in high
volume to flow across the axle so in effect, the damping in soft normal mode
should match the more basic BX set up and sharper noticeably when switched
out when you're driving / cornering harder. The optimum set up on hydractive
will be good spheres and fluid (as per normal set up) PLUS decent electronics for
the electrovalve switching between normal and sport.

An additional tweak that can be done on a hydractive car is to get a wider
opening on a disc in the valve block feeding the middle sphere (effectively
the jet of the middle sphere) which is quite easy enough to access and get
adjusted opening jet diameter (by a decent machine shop if needs be).

Personally, I'd always go for a well set up hydractive car to a less controlled
body roll hydropneumatic set up as the handling is far far better without any
compromise to ride - if you're looking for DS 'unchecked' wallow, you're looking
at the wrong car really with a high spec Xantia. Even a base LX / SX estate
will have a firmness more than you're looking for?

Rear door jamb corrosion:
Most Xantiae can now show some signs of age and wear and tear on this area
with varying degrees of severity in the corrosion - they're not getting younger
and this failure doesn't seem specific to just estates. You'll have to shop around
a fair bit and also look out the rear wings wheelarch areas generally.

Sunroof:
I mentioned sunroofs in the previous v1 thread as you specifically mentioned
you prefer this option and in my personal experience / buying many Xantiae
the younger the car, the less chance of finding a sunroof fitted irrespective
of the spec and whether it's a Exclusive or Sx etc so again, it's pot luck!

Why sound so vindictive towards the VSX you plan scrapping - try selling it on
through the forum here as I know myself any probably others would consider it
- what's wrong with it as I feel I want to ask? I had an near identical car stolen
and really fancy another to replace it.

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 28 Oct 2012, 13:44

One further point about your current estate:

Has it had the middle spheres changed with the correct spec ones as these primarily
give the softness and subtlety in the ride. The corner spheres are the ones which the
car will run on all the time but switch to when tightening up through the changing
of electronics isolating the corners when accelerating corners etc. It's easy to DIY fit
new corners and totally neglect the middles or even fit incorrect spheres when they
usually all look so similar / near identical.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Oct 2012, 16:17

If you cut off the Drop link bars, then won't the cars height work?? As the height is connected to the rollbar, if theres no positioning the car wont go up or down because the front struts arent setting its position...

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 28 Oct 2012, 16:24

If disconnected on both sides, yes the ARB won't twist and transfer it's position to the height corrector.
I had the situation where one drop link was totally missing (don't ask as I have no idea having bought the
car like this!) and another where the rear bolt through the ARB had snapped allowing both trailing
arms to free from one another. Each time one side was left as per spec.

Maybe this thread will work if only the facts and not opinions are aired so don't be afraid to comment!?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Oct 2012, 16:42

isisalar wrote: The car is going to the scrapyard as soon as I find a replacement. It's beyond saving before anyone asks.

Can you remove and send me the rear bumper for an Estate VSX I am dooing up to sell....

I sugested an SX car because they dont have the Hydractive syspension.... What this means to me is this: If you fit 4 new corner spheres and the one on the engine you are then GAURENTEED nice soft suspension, because theres no isuues with electro valves working or not etc...

For a nice soft ride easyilly rectified, then an SX it needs to be. The Sunroofs were a £310 option when new, so there could be a couple with S/R's.. however, its safe to say that most if not all S2 SX models didn't have that option box ticked.

An SX car has the electrics all in under the seats ready to fit Electric leather straight in, so theres the Exclusive seats added nice and easyilly... you only need alloys then.

Rust, Ive also said in many places is a Hit N Miss issue. Theres no patten to it, theres nothing behind the panel, I cut one out recently to fit to a V6 I am going to do up.. Ill cut some more out of a Hatch im currently breaking.

Theres a couple of nice estates on ebay at the moment, and NOT Exclusives or VSX models, so no hydractive.

So to me, it sounds you want a nice soft ride, which is what I beleve you buy a Citroen for, so an SX is what suits, but unfortunally you wont get your sunroof.

isisalar · Post by **isisalar** » 28 Oct 2012, 19:02

When I bought the VSX it was nearly mint, I had a good job, with a company van and the VSX was my bit of luxury for driving at the weekends. I also had the money to get any jobs done on it as necessary and it was my intention to get it as right as possible. Sadly I not only lost my job but was forced to use the VSX as my Van, in a very poorly paid job, so badly paid that Ive just about managed to keep it running even having to skimp on servicing. It's had a broken engine mount for the last two years and there's always been a greater need for the £60 they cost elswhere. It's proved to be pretty indestructible but has had a few fights and sadly one involved the rear bumper(sorry citroenxm)
As we used to say when I was in the trade 'it's never going to be a nice car'
It's still in daily use and had some new strut tops about 2/3 years ago £190 if anyone wants it when I've found a new one.
It has some rust at the top of the inner front wings which was the death knell for me when I saw it.
On a happier note I'm now doing reasonably well in a new self employed position hence the desire for the new car.
I 100% agree with you citroenxm re the unnecessary complexity of the hydractive set up but it looks like I may have to consider one.
I love the theory of the hydractive but changing the centre spheres has come behind the engine mount in priority which is why I'd like to try a well sorted estate.
Thanks for your input andmcit.
I'd still like to know how the wheel arch/door shut rust issue is dealt with at MOT time.
Thanks for your input everybody keep it coming.
Kind regards
Paul

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Oct 2012, 19:14

When you take her to the scrap yard you must ask if you can recover the strut tops first though... worth a bit now as they become no longer available..

as for an engine mount probably got loads of them.. imcurrently just breaking a td xantia now with all good mounts.. Likely to go with the car too ..

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 28 Oct 2012, 19:48

Not much help now but just two weeks ago you could have tried my HDi Exclusive, suspension was as soft as a blancmange

Re the difference between the ride on estates and saloons well from my pretty wide experience of Xantias especially Hydractive ones I've yet to find two Xantias of the same model that ride the same, they all vary to some degree from what I've found. I wouldn't say estates are any better or worse than saloons, the best riding by far has always been Goldie my VSX TD but then that's still only done 36k miles, if anything I'd say mileage is one of the big determining factors as to how well they ride.

A couple of things that I think you need to take into account with ride smoothness is if you drive the same hydraulic Citroen everyday its very easy to become over critical plus in your instance the car was always carrying a fairly heavy load so would be switching from soft to firm earlier than other Hydractive Xantia's.

isisalar · Post by **isisalar** » 29 Oct 2012, 16:50

Yet again Richard you have come up with exactly the information I needed and put a smile on my face all in one post.
Now the hard work begins trying to find a car.
'Carrying a fairly heavy load'- very politely put.
Thanks for all your input chaps.
Kind regards
Paul

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 29 Oct 2012, 16:56

So what model are you looking for then ? Sx without hydractive or sunroof or exclusive with hydractive and sunroof...

isisalar · Post by **isisalar** » 29 Oct 2012, 18:16

First choice sx/lx with sunroof, second choice exclusive. I suppose I could stand all that spec if I have to but would have to drive it before buying.
Kind regards
Paul

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 29 Oct 2012, 18:25

Well as i said above in s2 cars sunroofs in lx or sx is virtually non exsistant as air con was standard and sunroofs were a 310 cost option.. im yet to see an s2 lx or sx with sunroof.. only s2 exclusives are common with sunroofs..

unless you get a series one car up to P reg as series one Lx and Sx cars had sunroofs...

lurchy666 · Post by **lurchy666** » 29 Oct 2012, 18:56

citroenxm, ill have to post a pic of my s2 110 hdi estate sx on a t reg with my lovelly rattly sunroof so youve seen one,

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 29 Oct 2012, 19:00

As i keep saying... the roof was an option for 310 quid so its not unavailable.. just scarse

French Car Forum