C5 - 2.0 HDI Gearbox/Linkage - Problem !

[XMX]

I've tried a 'Search Through' via the search facility but I can't seem to find a relevant topic, so hence this posting !

My friend called me out to help someone who lives close by to him with a C5 hatchback 2.0 HDi on a '51' reg. which has covered 115K which has developed a gearbox or gearbox linkage problem, (which my friend and I think it is) ?

Apparently the owner of the C5 had a mobile mechanic to look at it (At a cost of £45 for a 10 minute examination) who diagnosed that the gearbox is terminal/dead !

We've had a quick look/check over, and think its more like a failed gear lever/mechanism fault just below the gear-stick as you really can't select/feel any gear's what so ever, (It feels like your stirring your Tea) nothing much really happening or being selected but I could see the lever/arms on the top or the gearbox moving slightly whilst my friend was sitting the car trying to select a gear (Also note that after starting the engine with the clutch engaged it could drive but we think its stuck in 3rd gear) !

So after some deliberation (As the lady/owner, was thinking about scrapping it after being told by the mobile mechanic that it was going to cost £500/£600 to repair it) we are hopefully going to get the vehicle onto my friends drive and raised up on some ramps over the weekend for a closer examination under the gear-stick/lever area !

As I've never worked on a C5 and therefore unaware of any unusual/common faults in this area on this model, hopefully someone may have had some similar experience in the past who could share any similar problem/fixes ?

Also I'd like to add I that the vehicle has been well maintained throughout its life with regular servicing etc. and drove perfectly prior to a recent MOT which it had in the last week or so (Apparently has only been driven less than 10 miles since the MOT) !

After getting home and thinking thro' the scenario /\ , I phoned my friend and suggested to him that if its had a 'Bucking Bronco' type MOT (i.e. it was tested one of the one-man type operated 'shaking ramp' type testing stations) it may have suffered some damage to the gear-linkage lever or some other associated mechanism/part ?

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated or if there are any common problem/faults which I'm not aware of I'd be very grateful for the advice !

Thank you in advance/anticipation.



XMX

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[CitroJim]

I'm not 100% sure but a C5 with this engine is most likely to have an ML5T and therefore cable operated selectors. The cables do give up the ghost in a very similar way to which they have on Andmcit's 2.5 XM - I'm sure you've seen his thread on Club-XM.co.uk - and the problem is likely to be similar here. Sadly, the repair is a full cable/complete outfit rather than just the ballcup is it is on the XM.

Basically the gearstick operates two cables - one for the range and one for the gear. it only needs one to break or pop off the ball on the gearbox and the whole shooting-match falls over.

It is very unlikely to be anything internal to the gearbox... They're built like brick outhouses.

Can't see the MOT 'shaker' upsetting it unless it was already on the way out...

[reblack68]

The previous owner of my car was told the same- in fact a replacement gearbox, apart from being unnecessary, wouldn't even have cured the problem. This arrangement is for the BE4 gearbox, the ML5 is similar. The ML5 has reverse beside first and the BE4 has reverse beside fourth.



The problem on mine was where the outer cable clips onto the mounting on the gearbox (where the number 14 is), the end had got damaged and come adrift so that all the movement was going to the outer cable instead of to the inner. I'd advise you to watch this bit while somebody operated the lever.

The replacement cable was a bit eye-watering at £70. To fit the cable you have to drop the exhaust system and undertray to gain access to the underside of the lever. I didn't fancy tackling this so I worked out how to dismantle the cable and only fit the part that was damaged.

The whole assembly is so well buried that it's unlikely an MOT tester could hurt it, not from the outside at least. It will have been a result of being a bit brutal with the gear lever. On mine the clutch had been dragging and making the gears difficult to select, this was cured by lifting the clutch pedal.

[Gibbo2286]

I had the same problem on a late Xantia the outer cable had come loose from the crimping at the lever end, I coated it with Loctite, pushed it back into place and used a small strip of steel and a couple of hose clips to hold it together. Still going like that now after two years.

[XMX]

Thanks guy's !
Hopefully my friend and I will get the vehicle up on ramps for a comprehensive examination over the weekend and I'll get back with the finding's !

Jim, I've seen Andrew's thread on the XM Forum where this problem has been discussed recently and also a while back which occurred to another 2.5 TD gear cable/linkage which I made a posting to (LINK) but on that occasion it was the actual cable which had failed internally unlike the ball-cup being torn away from the 'Banjo' like in Andrews and my case !



XMX

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[XMX]

Update !
We got the vehicle up on the ramps today for a closer examination today and also repaired the fault too

It was basically an easy fix, once the gear-stick housing box cover-plate (Item #C ) was removed !



As on initial inspection it could be seen that one of the outer cable ferrule ends was not in the 'Fully pushed home' position and when this cable was slightly pulled away from the gear-stick housing box (Item #A) you could see the machined 'Circlip' groove in the outer cable ferrule end (where item #7 should engage into) so even before removing the cover-plate it was obvious that the circlip (Item #7) had either broke or somehow popped off



So after bending back a few of the 'Tang's holding the cover-plate in place we managed to release the cover plate which also released/uncovered the 'Circlip' which had pinged off !



We went to the main Citroen dealers as we thought it may be best to fit two new circlip's (Item #7) whilst the vehicle was up on the ramps (Also peace of mind) however they don't keep them in stock (cost 81p each), two day's delivery time

But as the lady/owner really need her vehicle back on the road plus we didn't want the car in bits/on ramps for all that time too, I tweaked the circlips leg's in a little tighter so as it grips into the ferrule/groove better !
However it was a little difficult to make sure both sides/legs were engaged correctly into the groove correctly, so after fitting the circlip correctly , we thought best check the other cable too as this side had been incorrectly fitted (this had only one leg engaged into the groove) !

We suspect this is possibly why the side which we had just replaced the circlip back onto, was the reason/cause of the gear shift failure ?



So after a further/final check that both of the circlips were correctly fitted/engaged into the ferrule grooves, the cover-plate was then refitted to the gear-stick housing box, which was also rather fiddly to bend the 'Tang's over !

Hopefully the lady owner can now pursue a refund/claim from the mobile mechanic who completely made a misdiagnosis of the actual problem (If she does not, I'd personally report them to BBC's programme 'Rouge Traders') !

It all sounds a familiar story as featured in last week programme when they 'Named and shamed'



This disgusting Conman MIKE the mobile MECHANIC /\ , for his antic's in the ROUGE TRADERS feature (Starts @ 14:53) -



XMX

P.S. Apology's for the poor focus in my photo's !

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[addo]

I'd never considered circlips or E-clips to have legs. Maybe that's how they jumped off in the first place?

[CitroJim]

I'd never considered circlips or E-clips to have legs. Maybe that's how they jumped off in the first place?

Legs? If you entered them in the Olympics they'd have won gold in every event where jumping was involved and if there was a gold for hiding they'd be in a league of their own....

[St0rK]

Hey guys,

Sorry for my bad english, i'm from Romania and i have some gear linkage problems, someone worked on my C5 and broke one of the cables, the one with the big hole My problem is i can't find a replacement. can anyone here provide a link to one of your suppliers or something where i can find these cables. I googled it till i dropped but no dice.

Thank you in advance
Aurelian