Hello People
I have just done the clutch on my 2001 xsara picasso 1.8, and what a slag of a job.
The problem i have is i think the syncro has gone as it grinds when i go to put into 1st gear, the rest of the gears are fine. It was hard to tell if it was on its way out before hand because the thrust bearing decided to see how many pieces it could break itself into, inside the bellhousing.
So my questions are:
Is this box (20DL69) fitted to any other model, i have found out its fitted to the earlier 206 gti's, but the gear shifts on top look different.
Also is there a list of bearings for this box so i can buy them individually or a cheapish place to buy them as a kit (cheapest I've found is £95), i would rather change the bearings, at least them i know the box will be better off, unless i can find a low mileage box
Is there a gearbox rebuild manual?
Cheers
Shane
Gearbox options
Moderator: RichardW
Re: Gearbox options
Does 1st have a syncro ?. Will it go into reverse without crunching ?
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Citroen C15
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Re: Gearbox options
Goes into all the other gears fine, sometimes feel a bit stiff but they do go in with no crunching, also if i go from 2nd to first theres little/no crunching.Lighty wrote:Does 1st have a syncro ?. Will it go into reverse without crunching ?
Shane
Oh and its got new oil in it, 1.8ltrs of the stuff
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Re: Gearbox options
If it cruches going into first when stationary then the clutch is dragging. When you push the clutch down when stationary everything in the gearbox should stop. If it crunches then something's still moving. Try holding the clutch down and counting to 3 before putting it in first, it might help.
Re: Gearbox options
If i hold down the clutch when i start the car then put it into gear it doesnt crunch, if i try to engage first from second (or any other gear) it doesnt crunch, only if i disengage all gears, release the clutch and then put it back down to engage first does it crunch (sometimes cannot even get it into gear).flying clutchman wrote:If it crunches going into first when stationary then the clutch is dragging. When you push the clutch down when stationary everything in the gearbox should stop. If it crunches then something's still moving. Try holding the clutch down and counting to 3 before putting it in first, it might help.
The question i'm actually asking is: does the box from this come from any other car, i've had a look around the net and the only other car i can find it on is the pug 206 gti, but the gear select is different
Cheers
Shane
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Re: Gearbox options
I still think the clutch is dragging. What make of clutch did you use? Was the bearing guide tube damaged? The gearchange levers are normally pinned, so can be interchanged between different models. I would have expected your gearbox to be a variant of BE3/4. This is fitted to all sorts of PSA vehicles such as 406,xantia etc.
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Re: Gearbox options
As the Clutchman says it's more likely to be the clutch dragging than a gearbox fault. If I was you I'd use it for a while to see if it comes good, if when fitting it you let the weight of the gearbox hang on the spline you might have distorted the driven plate, or engaging the spine might have burred it causing it to hold the driven plate against the flywheel and drag.
Man is, by nature, a lazy beast, he does not need twice encouraging to do nothing.
Re: Gearbox options
I replaced the guide as it was in pieces, same as the bearing was in about 10 different pieces.
I put in a Valeo clutch kit.
when removing it i used the hoist and it was holding the weight all the time, to make sure not to cause any damage.
I think i've damaged something with driving it with no clutch (i had to get to work)
The number for the gearbox is 20DL69 and that is on no other car (apart from the 206 gti).
Unless it is just the bell housing that is different?? i done a search for 20DL* and it come up with alot of citroen boxes,
I have tried pumping the clutch before i go into first, the reason (imho) i think it is grinding is because the synchro mesh is knackered, when trying to go straight into first the box is still spinning but when going to second then first, the second is stopping the box from spinning which is why it can be engaged (i could be talking out of my arse but to me that is a logical reason why it is crunching)
I'm not new to this sort of thing, i'm a mechanical fitter on board a ship and i've been fixing my own cars (as well as others) for about 15 years,
Shane
I put in a Valeo clutch kit.
when removing it i used the hoist and it was holding the weight all the time, to make sure not to cause any damage.
I think i've damaged something with driving it with no clutch (i had to get to work)
The number for the gearbox is 20DL69 and that is on no other car (apart from the 206 gti).
Unless it is just the bell housing that is different?? i done a search for 20DL* and it come up with alot of citroen boxes,
I have tried pumping the clutch before i go into first, the reason (imho) i think it is grinding is because the synchro mesh is knackered, when trying to go straight into first the box is still spinning but when going to second then first, the second is stopping the box from spinning which is why it can be engaged (i could be talking out of my arse but to me that is a logical reason why it is crunching)
I'm not new to this sort of thing, i'm a mechanical fitter on board a ship and i've been fixing my own cars (as well as others) for about 15 years,
Shane
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Re: Gearbox options
your're right about going in to second stops the gearbox spinning. The point is at standstill it should stop spinning when you depress the clutch. If it's ok when you start the car with the clutch down it points to the same thing. There's just a slight clutch drag that's stopping it engaging. Keep selecting 2nd before 1st for a week or two and you might find the clutch will work properly once it's bedded in. (unlikely though!)
Re: Gearbox options
But surely it should be grinding in the rest of the gears (or at least 1 other gear).flying clutchman wrote: your're right about going in to second stops the gearbox spinning. The point is at standstill it should stop spinning when you depress the clutch. If it's ok when you start the car with the clutch down it points to the same thing. There's just a slight clutch drag that's stopping it engaging. Keep selecting 2nd before 1st for a week or two and you might find the clutch will work properly once it's bedded in. (unlikely though!)
I'm going to drop the oil from the box and refill it just in case i didn't put enough in (just covering what i can without having to take the box off)
Also i'm going to bleed the clutch again, although i can see it engaging when getting an assistant to press the clutch.
Once i get this sorted i've got to pull the box out of my GTO TT to replace the input shaft seal
Thank you for the replies, i am grateful
Shane
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- Posts: 321
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- x 3
Re: Gearbox options
Quite normal not to have a problem with the higher gears, the higher the gear the easier it slips in.