xantia s2 hdi water heater and slow turning over

[lurchy666]

Hi last week when it got down to 3 degrees my xantia seemed slow to turn over. Now its warmish again its fine. I also had all the dash lights and the rev counter /speedo going mad while starting.

I know the speedo/revcounter is due to low volts on the battery but I had kwikfit do a test on it and they say its fine and I had it on charge the night after as well just to make sure.

I also waited for the glow plug relay to clunk out before trying to start the car.

I have been reading about the electric water heater fitted to these cars and wondering if that could be the cause of my slow turning over.

I have checked the battery and all the earths and the glow plugs and they are all fine. I was just wondering if this electric water heater could be pulling the amps away from my starter.

Next question is where is it fed from and if atall possable can I pull a fuse or relay to try and see if it is this making my turning over slow

[CitroJim]

It might be Lurchy, if I recall correctly, there's two big white? fuses on the end of the main engine bay fusebox that feeds the coolant heater plugs.

My feeling would be that the battery clamps might be slightly high resistance. Test them by starting up and applying the biggest electrical load you can and then after a few minutes feel each battery clamp. If one or both feel warm to the touch then they have high resistance and need to be replaced. There's been a few other posts on this subject in the past and a quick work-around is to re-crimp them where the cables enter with a big pair of pliers.

It might be just the battery getting tired.

[DickieG]

IIRC the heater only operates after the engine has started, more than likely the problem is down to poor criming on the battery positive lead terminal which is a common problem, after the car has started and been running for say 3-5 minutes feel the temperature of the battery positive lead/terminal, if its warm then you really need to change the terminal asap as leaving it will cause the insulation to melt and possibly start an electrical fire.

edit; You just beat me to it Jim

[lurchy666]

Well when I had l look at the earths with my trusty old multi meter I didnt find any resistance at all (0.0 ohms infact) but I didnt do the live. I'll have a look when im next off work. My dash has always done the flicky speedo and revcounter thing (even when I have tryed a known good battery from my old xantia which is filly charged) thats why I got my battery tested at kwik fit (lol I know kwik fit are useless but it was free). Cheers lads

[Xantidote]

I'm not sure a multi-meter's resistance test is really a very effective test, assuming you were doing it under conditions of no electrical load. If you can, I'd check the voltage across the battery terminals themselves (not the clamps) whilst cranking the engine (2nd pair of hands?), and then a similar test between starter positive terminal and the engine block. Compare these results. I appreciate this is not so easy as the starter's not always easily accessible. Alternatively, on the positive side, you could check the voltage drop between battery terminal itself (not the clamp) and starter terminal.

Without a multi-meter, a trial-and-error way would be to use jump lead from battery to the appropriate terminal/earth point on block, and see if engine spins more quickly.

What I suspect you might be doing would give 0.0 resistance as long as there's a slither of metal contact between battery terminal and clamp (or the lead itself), as the only current then flowing would be the milliamps from the multi-meter's circuitry whilst doing the test.

A bit of resistance/poor contact at the terminal/clamp joint won't necessarily show up under light current demand, which is why you'll have read about feeling the terminal for warmth/heat after operating the starter, with it's very high current demand. Any resistance causes a bottleneck preventing the current flowing, and heat is generated.

Elsewhere on forum, refence has been made to the slow creep of corrosion on the Xantia's earth lead at the gearbox, so earlier this year, although the earths on my TD seemed OK (and the engine was starting OK), I fitted a second earth lead, running from battery direct to one of the clutch bell-housing bolts. The cable was low current capacity starter cable, because of difficulty in making a connection to the battery clamp bolt, but it's purpose was just to supplement the existing cabling, and reduce the possibility of voltage drop on start-up. If you were to ask if there was any benefit, then I'd say maybe, but I could be imagining it

Sorry if a bit long-winded!

[markflip]

Although the alternator always seemed to kick out over 14 volts, the battery on the wife's old Xantia seemed to gradually loose 'oomph' over time and become sluggish turning over come winter. I found discharging it almost fully, over several hours, by leaving sidelights on then recharging it overnight with my "Optimate" charger restored it to full health - I'm sure a normal battery charger would probably give a similar improvement though, lead acid bateries do benefit from being 'cycled' occasionally as this shifts stubborn lead sulphate from the surface of the plates.

[lurchy666]

hi sorry bout the delay in replying other things like a new job offer has kinda stopped me playing with the xantia anyway, ive brought the old girl a new battery put it on and still does the flicky speedo thing but seemed better turning over, now today i checked oils water etc, and i looked at the battery and the plastic battery terminal cover that comes on new batterys which i always leave on has melted to the terminal not much but enough to see it had done it, think i need to sort my battery terminal,

thanks for the replys guys the vertual beers\wine are on me

[CitroJim]

Excellent, a nice open and shut case of a high resistance terminal there

Tea, milk, no sugar please

[citroenxm]

hi sorry bout the delay in replying other things like a new job offer has kinda stopped me playing with the xantia anyway, ive brought the old girl a new battery put it on and still does the flicky speedo thing but seemed better turning over, now today i checked oils water etc, and i looked at the battery and the plastic battery terminal cover that comes on new batterys which i always leave on has melted to the terminal not much but enough to see it had done it, think i need to sort my battery terminal,

thanks for the replys guys the vertual beers\wine are on me

I dont think changing just the terminal is the issue! I had posted a topic on it, and thought the severity of it MIGHT of prompted a STICKY at the TOP... but I think you will ALSO find the CABLES themselfs to the starter and altinator may also need changing.. They go high resitance over time... You will know because when you remove the Positive lead the cables will be REALLY STIFF!!!!

Change the cables too... You will need to find a way to crimp a 10mm Ring terminal at the starter end, plug another thinner lead to the altinator, with a 10mm ring both ends...

(Im sure its 10mm).. I had the same issue with my mothers car, it was a slow starter.. The Positive leads were buggered, so I fitted new battery to starter lead and starter to altinator lead and there was a massive difference...

Have a good look through THIS TOPIC

It should be a sticky really!!

[CitroJim]

It should be a sticky really!!

Yes, it's becoming a very common and potentially very dangerous problem now to which all Xantia owners should be aware...

[lurchy666]

ok i'll get some cable and some crimps at some point in not to distant future, and sort it out, should be easy enough i still got most my tools from when i was a house sparky, its just finding the crimpers whats going to be the problem, i know i have a set but where they are is another matter....

[Xantidote]

I don't like crimping, apart from not having a decent large crimping tool.

I prefer to solder the end of the cable into a nice large eye, using a small propane torch. Then bolt the eye to the battery terminal.

[lurchy666]

i would prefer soldered ends as well, but my soldering aint up it standard, id prob set the car /whereever i was doing it on fire so i think crimps are the better option

[lurchy666]

anyone got any idae on the size of cable i'd need??

[lurchy666]

Just had mine apart and all 4 leads from the positive rock solid and stuck together and half the insulation missing and right at the clamp its started burning. Great... Just been down halfords to look at battery cables etc for all the ones I need 26 quid then a battery terminal on top another 8 quid. Actually now im writing this that aint actually 2 bad for halfords.