305 transmission fluid?

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nametooshort
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305 transmission fluid?

Post by nametooshort »

I did a bit of a front end rebuild today including pulling the drive shafts to change the CV boots wishbone bushes etc end drained the transmission fluid.

The manual said that this range of cars needs engine oil (15w40) in the transmission up to 1988, and then 75w80ep post 1988. It also says the capacity is 2.0L.

My car is a 1987 305GLD. It has the 1.8d engine and a 5-speed transmission.

So this confuses me, because first of all the oil that came out of my transmission was transmission fluid, NOT engine oil (you can instantly tell by the smell).

Also a lot more then 2.0L came out, and it took way over 3.0L even to fill the transmission up (usual procedure with transmissions is to fill them till fluid reaches the fill hole, right?).

So whats up with that?

Did someone accidentally put transmission fluid into my car, despite that being a pre-1988 model it needs engine oil? Or perhaps the transmission is newer? Is there any way I can tell? Like perhaps transmissions requiring engine oil have a different serial/model number or some kind of external differences? How can I tell for sure which type I have?

Also how comes about 3.0L drained from mine, and tool over 3.0L to fill it, and the book says 2.0L?

I know older cars where transmissions are designed to run on engine oil really suffer if people put transmission fluid into them. Iv had a few cars which needed transmission rebuild because of previous owners filling them with ep80W90 when they need engine oil. But also, putting engine oil into a transmission designed to have transmission fluid would break it too. So I really need to figure out which type I have! I don't really want to drive this thing before I fill it with the correct oil.
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spider
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by spider »

I'd put BV in it I think. Engine oil is a bit too thin I think (I know elderly designs such as the BMC 'a' series used a shared trans / engine oil)

Regarding the level, you are filling it to the level plug on the side yes ?
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by Oldpug »

Your 305 has 2lts 75/80 transmission oil as it has the separate BE gear box on the XU engine. The confusion is that early 305`s had the old XL engine where the gearbox was integral "in the sump" and the engine oil lubricated everything.
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by nametooshort »

I knew there was a early 305 version with the transmission in the sump, BUT, this spec (15w40 pre 1985, 75w80 post 1985) came from the XUD engine manual. This manual deals only with the XUD diesel powered models of the 205 305 etc. As far as I know, ALL XUDs had conventional end-mounted transmissions, right? This car is so confusing.

Anyways, bad news with my transmission. So it turns out I think it was grossly over-filled. It seems that these transmissions do not have a level plug as such. There is a filler plug, but it's not a level plug. My mistake was to fill it to the plug, which took like 4.5+ liters of fluid (now that I counted the empty bottles).

It seems the correct procedure seems to be to drain the transmission completely and then measure out 2.0L of oil and fill it. There is no way of telling the level, because the fill plug is way higher.

So, after overfilling it (as I now know) and then taking a drive, the transmission is leaking profusely. The whole side/bottom of the car, drive-shaft, wheel well and wheel are covered in oil, and it drips pretty bad. I can't tell where it's coming from, but it looks like it's from around the diff/left drive shaft area. However, I DID just over fill it by 2.5L+L or so!

So, the possibilities I can think of are:

-Its badly over-filled and leaking from someplace where it would not leak from if it had a normal amount of oil.

-When I took the left drive shaft out, and put it back in later, I damaged the oil seal. It does warn in the book that you should never just push the shaft straight into the oil seal, since the splines can damage it, you have to use a sheet plastic protector, but it says that in many books about many oil seals, and in practice makes no difference. Besides, that seal has the plastic 'fingers' on it which are designed to protect it when fitting the shaft back in?

So, does anybody know if either of these are a possibility?

If one of these transmissions is over-filled massively, do you think it would leak badly?

I will drain it in the next few days and put in 2.0L.
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by nametooshort »

Well, I drained the transmission. Despite that it leaked a significant quantity already, like 3.2 liters or so came out, so I think it's safe to say it was waaaay overfilled. Somewhat of a fail moment I guess.

Now I filled it with the correct 2.0 liters, will see what happens. Hopefully it will stop leaking.

Now the radiator is leaking tho! I don't know why, I only replaced it a few months ago, but it's leaking.

Its seriously one thing after another with this car! I think it randomly decided to leak in every way possible, just to p**s me off?

I guess ill pull the rad out tomorrow and see whats up with it. I think it's the stub that connects to the bottom hose that's leaking.
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by Oldpug »

Your 305 keeps you busy then!! Yes,if you overfill these boxes it will blow oil out of every where,mainly the breather.These early BE boxes were prone to this mistake then Peugeot modified them with a filler/level plug in the end cover.As for drive shaft oil seals I always fit new ones every time a drive shaft has been removed.Also I always prefer to use the ones with a white plastic "protector",I`ve never used a "fitting tool",just as with all oil seals lots of grease and lots of care when fitting the shaft.
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by nametooshort »

Yeah, it sure does. It is still my favorite car at the moment tho, despite the fact that I have a few others here and there, and most of them are at least 30 yrs older and way more valuable. Ah well.

So today I pulled the radiator out, and found that the bottom hose stub was crumpled! This radiator was a new-old-stock one, and was actually made of brass, old style. The problem is that the pipe stubs are made out of very thin brass, and collapsed in on itself with pressure from the worm clip.

I pulled the radiator out and worked out that the brass pipes are somewhere around 30mm ID. So first I found a socket which was just under 30mm OD, and I put it inside the stub to use as a former, and hammered around it to make the pipe straight again. Then I found an old socket which was just over 30mm OD (like 30.2 or something), I was willing to sacrifice this socket, so I welded a M8 nut to the bottom of it, and then very gently hammered the socket into the pipe. Since the socket was 0.2mm or so bigger, it was a tight fit and straightened out any wrinkles in the stub to form a perfect pipe again. But then I had a socket stuck snugly in the pipe, which is where the M8 nut came in, since it was welded to the socket, I screwed a slide hammer with a M8 bolt on it into the nut, and used that to gently pull the socket out.

I reassembled everything using new wider worm clips. No leaks as of yet!

Oh yeah, back to the transmission. It still leaks, but much less. I think it's only the drive shaft seal that is leaking slightly. I will replace it next time I have some spare time.

Do you think it's possible that its leaking just because I pulled the drive shaft out and put it back in without changing the seal?

When you say 'protector' you mean the plastic washer with 'fingers' that's permanently attached to the seal, right? If so, the seal I bought has one of those.

The 'fitting tool' is a disposable sleeve that goes around the shaft and is then removed once the shaft is in the seal, right?
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by dieselnutjob »

I have a feeling (but very vague) that the internal parts are basically the same on the BE gearbox that took engine oil and the BE gearbox that took gearbox oil. I think it was the change interval that changed rather than the actual parts. Also I'm pretty sure that the later ones had a level plug and it might be that the oil spec change coincided with the level plug being added.
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Re: 305 transmission fluid?

Post by Oldpug »

Pretty sure the seal is leaking because it was not changed.There are lots of after market seals but the O/E ones with the built in white plastic outer bit are by far the best and much safer to fit.I`ve never seen or used any special fitting tools just great care in fitting the seal in the diff and then sliding the shaft in.
As for the other comment on oil,Peugeot have never listed engine oil in the BE box no matter how old it was.The confusion is with the early 305`s that had the "in the sump" integral gearbox with the XL/XK engines.
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