C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

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reblack68
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C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by reblack68 »

After seven years of having at least one hydro Citroen in the family I've just experienced my first suspension-related breakdown.

I was driving along a reasonably flat road when there was a bang and the back corner of the car became jiggly. I concluded that a sphere must have burst, not surprising as I think they are 11 years old. When I raised the suspension that corner seemed reluctant to rise- eventually jumping up all at once, and it was losing fluid from the small end of the rubber boot. When I lowered the suspension it was the same- dropping all at once.

I've a feeling the stiffness might be the rear arm bearings, they do click now and again, but I'm a bit worried about the fluid loss. Will that fix itself if I replace the sphere? If I do have to replace the cylinder it's likely to get one from a scrapyard. Mine is the LX with the basic suspension, does the replacement cylinder have to come from an LX?

The car is a 2001 C5 1.8LX hatchback version.
Last edited by reblack68 on 24 Aug 2012, 07:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder

Post by Lighty »

I change lots of these cylinders, they often leak, Its easier just to replace the whole thing, although if it was mine I would probably strip it to find out why they leak. Would imagine its corrosion around the rubber boot seal mainly.
The only difference in the cylinders is the size of the feed pipe, so standard suspension has a small bore pipe, and Hydractive a large pipe.
The units are £98 + vat for a new one,( I have one to do on tuesday), I usually get a new feed pipe, as these are hard to remove, but they are pricey at about £30.
The hardest bit is getting the "handgrenade " pin out of the push rod that connects to the arm.A load of freeing oil a few days before may help, but if oil is leaking here, then it is doing it for you ;)
Sometimes the pin comes out easily, then the unit is fixed on with 2 Torx bolts, these are usually tricky to get out due to corrosion .
ok to fit used if some one has a unit removed, but couldnt be bothered to do it myself, as its twice the work.
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by reblack68 »

Thanks for the information. Between your advice and fighting with it myself I have a much clearer picture of how it all fits together.

It turned out that completing the journey on a flat sphere had broken the pushrod. That's what caused the jerky movement and leaking. I managed to get a used pushrod and boot, and the cylinder itself seems fine. As you predicted the grenade pin has proved difficult to extract, and I still haven't managed. I've worked out a bodge to allow me to drive it to my friend's garage for some oxy-acetylene action on the hoist.

It strikes me the sphere would be easier to change on the bench, and I've established that the feed pipe will unscrew without breaking the pipe. Is it possible to remove the cylinder with the sphere attached? (I'm thinking as I type this and I'm 90% sure it can't :( )
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by citronut »

i have not removed any C5 suspension units as yet but if they are the same idea as BX and XANT's then no is your answer,
as the S/U comes out forward and the sphere will not pass though the sub frame
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Bob1954 »

citronut wrote:i have not removed any C5 suspension units as yet but if they are the same idea as BX and XANT's then no is your answer,
as the S/U comes out forward and the sphere will not pass though the sub frame
I believe this is indeed the case, sphere out toward back, ram out toward front, after removing a clip holding the ram to the sunframe (hidden behind the sphere). Sphere is hand tight fit on reassembly so easy enough on reassembly.

As Lightly said, the feed pipe will in all probability be corroded rendering removal tricky - it might move, but may also rip the tube wall if it binds... IF the bolt unwinds without damage, brilliant.
The advantage of having a new pipe is you can chop and squeeze the pipe ends, and just replace it at your leisure.
You cannot use the high pressure suspension trick to unpinch the sphere, so the ram will need to be gripped to start the sphere off. It unwinds by hand easily thereafter

The grenade pin - use a small drill bit or jewellers screwdriver to clear the far end of the pin, give that a good few doses of loosoil and let it penetrate for 30 minutes( The pin will probably be corroded in the cup end ). The easiest way is a drift and a big hammer. Think I used a hardened steel like a drillbit or old jeweller's screwdriver or similar. Once it is started it pops out easily.

Good luck...
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by jgra1 »

hmm . is this a C5 thing? or does it affect xants etc too ?

Just concerned now, as I have to carry full weight in the car tomorrow and Sunday.. :O ..
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Bob1954 »

I believe the systems are effectively the same..... And thereby the techniques...
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by reblack68 »

I think self-destructing spheres are a C5 feature, I remember reading about a spike to force you to change them on time.

The ride felt fine before it happened, the car wasn't loaded and the road was ok.
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by jgra1 »

hmm.. tomorrow is going to be a test :(

570 kgs I think...

got recovery thank goodness..
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Bob1954 »

Load it with suspension normal and engine running, if it stays up, good to go..... avoiding speed bumps and the like, should do fine....
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Monkeyfeet »

570kgs? Isn't that just short of 100 st or 10 light people?
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by jgra1 »

it is... :O

I think thats the max load I can carry, at least I hope it is!
thats me and two others, 70KG of fuel.. and the load..


Thanks bob.. the xant always coped in the past.. with the same loading (red wine! )
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Bob1954 »

The ferry run I guess...
Quite a tax saving etc., and usually a better selection too.... HMCRC (?) will be a lot less bullish these days I guess....
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by jgra1 »

train this time bob.. shame as the sea's could be rough tomorrow ;)

hmm .. just looked in the handbook.. I can only carry 520... with 900 max on the rear axle.. would be interesting to know what is on that axle when car empty..

cutting it close.. at least the car wont look heavy :)
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Re: C5 Sphere and Cylinder- update and more stupid questions

Post by Monkeyfeet »

" at least the car wont look heavy :) "

Oh yes I've been there! Fully and I fully mean laden with wine the Xantia and C5 both looked very normal, handing was still ok when taking a bit of care, too.
Just don't let your mind wander when on the autoroute and have to stop rather erm, quickly :oops: .Didn't hit anything but I have always keep the speed down ever since!
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