Laguna 2002 2.2 Dci

[Gnerk]

Hi guys,

Long time, no post. And last time I was driving citroens. From 2006, I have been from ZX TD Volcane (great, great car - metal moth hit so bye bye in 2008), Xantia TD (the family loved the comfort; cambelt failure within service life in Jan 2012), and ZX 1.9D (scrappy, untidy example but ultra reliable, soon to be in eBay).

Bought a Renault Laguna II 2.2 DCi last weekend. I was seduced by the looks, toys, and above all sheer power of this machine! 150 bhp from a 2.2 diesel. Bearing in mind I was used to the old (and ultra reliable PSA XUD engine) at 90 bhp (or rather less with the non turbo ZX), the Laguna was truly a remarkable ride.

Paid £1040 for a 2002 Dynamique wirh FSH and 12m MOT. Car was quite neat. Drove fine on the test. Seemed like a good deal.

Since the car has been in my ownership, I have realise the locks on the driver side are not working. Attempted manual locking - no dice. But back to seller, and he managed to get the manual locking to work. He now has the car back to have a got at fixing the locks. I am not confident this will work, but I can live with that if the manual locking works and fix later.

More disturbing is the way that the car likes to stall under no load (with clutch in ?) quite frequently. Started two days after buying the car - never would have noticed on test. Car drives under load *very* nicely (took the car out for a drive the evening with my 10 yo daughter, and chuckled together at what speeds we got to in 3rd and 4th before the red line! How high geared are these beasts?) In town, the car will stall quite frequently ( 3 times in 20 mins drive thru town) when dropping to idle. Essentially, if it is going to idle properly if will; it not, the car will drop to low rpm and stall when clutch is in and car is e.g coming to a stop.

I'd like to know if anyone else has had this problem and what the solution was?

The car is stamped FSH until the service before last. Looking at the air filter, replacement is sensible. The fuel filter may be the same. I have observed air bubbles in the line TO the fuel filter when the engine is not running. Not sure how to bleed if necessary... (no bulb as per XUD). 10w40 fully synth is recommended for the dCi. Anyone used 5w40 fully synth which I can get from Halfords?

Some experience as a home mechanic here - but the new diesel engines make me scared

Any advice (general or specific to my listing) on the 2.2 dCi welcome!

- Ian

[Gnerk]

Think I got a reply on this before the forum went down (now lost) - so thanks to whoever posted it!

[lexi]

The oil from Halfords will be fine. Could be a sensor that is stalling engine.

My experience of that engine is nil but get the fuel filter and oil system changed for starters along with air filter.

Then look for someone you can trust with the diagnostic tool for Renault.

[Gnerk]

Thanks for the reply there Lexi. Think someone posted a similar response re: sensor before the forum crash - they suggested coolant sensor. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this one?

Re: service. Yes, got some 5w40 from Tesco today (4L for about £19; the 2.2 dCi must have a massive sump as 6.something litres needed for a change). Will get air, oil and fuel filters from GSF tomorrow and then out with the tools whilst the weather is good!

I use a local garage called Motorsense in East Worthing. They have been really good, honest guys for the ZXs and Xantia so will truck along to them with the Laguna for a diagnostic job and see what's what!

Thanks for the advice,

Ian.

[Gnerk]

Anyone else got any advice on the 2.2 dCi?

I really welcome a bit of a confidence booster as I'm starting to wonder if switching from a (hopelessly under-powered , tatty but effortless reliable XUD) Citroen ZX 1.9D to a (ruthlessly torquey, high geared, some what complex and already playing up a bit) Laguna 2.2 dCi.

I always thought the Laguna looked great and found the keycard thing fine when I rented a Scenic in France back in 2005.

I think I just need a bit of a forum man hug and "it'll be fine"

- Ian.

[Gnerk]

Okay, so took car into Motorsense in Worthing (always trusted these guys).

A fault with the cam shaft sensor was diagnosed with the reader - and sensor was replaced. Car was test driven for 4 miles - no problems.

Car ran okay for 24 hrs or so, then started stalling again: only ever does it from idle or very low revs (1000 rpm or less). It'll just suddenly die when waiting at the lights, pulling away from the lights, coasting up to junctions / roundabouts, slowly chugging about on car parks.

Took it back to Motorsense, they diagnosed a MAF fault using the reader. Swapped MAF sensor over for a borrowed one, but fault persisted. Garage is now suggesting a wiring fault, but haven't investigated further for worry of making the problem worse.

Anyone got any ideas? I've had the car for a few weeks now and I'm absolutely gutted the bl**dy thing won't run properly. Not only is there the nagging feeling that I've bought a dog and that'll I'll end up sending to the scrapyard is desperation (can't really afford to do this) but I was also planning to drive it to my wife's parents in Poitiers in a few weeks, and since the damn thing is so unreliable it looks like we're end up taking the family in a 3 door P-reg Micra.

- Ian.

[Gnerk]

Okay -in between breaks in the weather I have been looking over the Laguna.

Noticed one thing - the car seems to be getting through a bit of coolant. It was full when I bought it, needed a few hundred mls a little over a week ago and then again now.

Top coolant hose was empty-ish. I could squeeze it and hear air/water slopping about. Since this is where the coolant sensor is I am now wondering if the car is misbehaving as the sensor isn't in proper contact with the coolant and giving the ECU a bum steer. Note that the problem I have only happens when the car is cold.

Disconnected the sensor and car started but ran poorly at idle when cold (over fuelling?)

Opened bleed valve next to sensor and got coolant.

Open bleed valve on hose to heater matrix and got no coolant. Have just filled (i.e. over filled) coolant reservoir to get water from this bleed valve. Am now having a cuppa whilst rain stops (hopefully) to get excess coolant back from tank and will then have a go and see if the car will start and run as it should.

What do you guys reckon?

- Ian.

[Gnerk]

Nope. Wasn't that.

Car back together, drove fine. Stopped in Arundel to let the car idle by the side of the road, seemed fine and then cut out. Restarted fine. Idled for about five mins fine. Drove back to Worthing - noticed something weird on the duel carriageway - and apparent reluctance to rev over about 2500 rpm - never noticed that before - EGR?

Back at Worthing, car stalled again as I coasted up to a roundabout. Was otherwise fine.

Tomorrow we look at the EGR...

-Ian.

[R9UKE]

Hey Ian.

It was me that replied before the crash, sorry about not being back on this topic as quick as I could have!

Right... unfortunately a "it'll be ok" isn't really what I could honestly give a 2.2 dCi owner, because it most likely won't be ok

I'm one of the moderators on the Vel Satis owners site and I regularly receive emails from prospective buyers asking for advice. My golden rule? Write off the 2.2 dCi completely.

It is probably one of the worst designed engines in history, certainly in Renault's history. The bloody things are never, ever right and one issue quickly leads into another. Leaking seals, injection issues, poor and incurable fuel consumption, intercooler buggery and of course the inevitable turbo failure which sees you end up like this poor guy as the engine blows itself to pieces.



I've never heard of a single happy owner, and many have even taken to petitions to try and get Renault to admit to the mistakes. Have a read through this and it should tell you all you need to know.

Lagunas are lovely cars, but I wouldn't touch a diesel! Go for the ZX.

Anyway... I suggested a coolant temperature sensor before, this has been an issue on both of my Clios. My Mégane (2.0 Petrol) suffered from cutting out in the same way as your Laguna is doing. It was both the MAP sensor and faulty wiring for the sensor itself.

Keep me updated! Sorry for the bad news, but honesty is best policy, right?

[Gnerk]

@ R9UKE (It's Luke, right? Been following loads of your posts on this and other forums)

Thanks for the advice - really

As I said before, I was lulled into the Gooner 2.2 dci by the combination of power, torque and economy. Seemed much better than the PSA 2.2 HDi which (in A C5) was likely to be the rival engine. Stunningly, my initial trawl for "what can go wrong?" on Parkers (some say they tell lies...) and Honest John (seemed like a good site when I bought the Xantia) didn't throw up any real issues apart from the usual Laguna = electrical problem.

So much to say in my infinite wisdom I decided that I could stand the odd electric mirror failing. Having been too tight to buy a common rail diesel up until the Gooner, I was in for a bit of a surprise when I realised that just about everything with the possible exception of the steering and brakes runs via the ECU (my Xant was a late one with a mini-ECU on the XUD, but everything else - lights, throttle, blah blah - was old school.

The sheer amount of sensors on the 2.2 dCi blew my mind when I started looking at the motor properly.

ANYWAY, long story short - EGR valve out today - cacked up with sh!te - now cleared. Repeated yesterdays run to Arundel and back as identically as possible and NO STALLING FAULT.

I live in hope.

I have told the car that if it runs properly for next week (mon to fri - clearly defined goals), I shall name it and it shall be named. My only other car to receive this honour was a black ZX TD Volcane called Eleanor. She came into my possession at a period in my life of much turmoil when I needed the familiar. As my second ZX (albeit the other was a 1.6 XU petrol Aura), Eleanor gave me stable platform to get on with life again. She gave much trouble (possibly the only ZX in the world to suffer from serious body corrosion) and most famously broke her throttle cable in Germany on the way to the Nordschliefe. After a fix up from the ADAC, I took her round (just the one lap) as planned and she got me and the family back to the UK without further incident.

If the current Laguna stops stalling on me I shall keep it, name it, and (most importantly) never, ever neglect to change it's oil every 30 secs. Bit of a shame it that trick cartridge filter - I used to enjoy recreation oil changes on the XUDs (being skinny I could get to all the bits without using a jack or other malarky).

Keep in touch,

Ian.

[lexi]

Well done Ian. Would be nice to get a few miles out of it now and get some moneys worth.

[Gnerk]

Lexi / R9UKE - thanks for the continuing support.

Chickens counted before they had hatched, though...

Got me to work no prob, and then from work to my daughters Brownies. This is the sort of low speed, stop start driving that was giving the problem. At Brownies, I let the car idle for 5 mins to test the issue. No problem. Drove round the corner. Car stalled. And then twice more on the way to Tesco after picking up my daughter. And then again on the way home.

Getting very frustrated now. Luke's remarks ringing very true.

To re-iterate the fault: car starts no problem from cold or warm. Will often restart first go if stalls - sometimes takes a few goes on the starter and hunts - revs dropping and back to 800 rpm or just over (1000-ish?); no engine racing. Only stalls when warm and at low engine speeds. Not always with clutch down (but have found clutch sensor this evening). I have noticed that the car will start to idle a bit roughly after a stall - a fair bit of vibration that isn't evident when the car is running from cold (when it doesn't stall) or from warm (when it appears to be running better).

I suppose it is *possible* that either the EGR is actually faulty or has got a lump of cack in it from the exhaust return pipe which has re-manifested the fault, but this is very likely to be my wishful thinking.

I do suspect that car is getting through coolant as I have said in my previous posts - could this be related? Doesn't seem to be an HG problem (coolant and oil clear) and no drips under the car from e.g. a water pump problem.

I have ruled out coolant sensor by disconnecting and starting from cold. Could be playing up from warm though I suppose. From cold the car gave loads of glow plugs and then ran like the proverbial P-I-G

I REALLY would like this car to work for me - and quite frankly had planned to take for a ca. 1000 mile holiday trip to France in a couple of weeks. I have a back up plan (wife's P reg Micra) but that is somewhat less preferable.

Is it worth running the car with the EGR disconnected? I guess some people blank these off? Just thinking this would rule that one out completely.

- Ian.

[Gnerk]

Oh, just to be clear. Work to date on the car:-

New air filter
New fuel filter
New oil and oil filter
New cam shaft TDC sensor (original diagnosis by garage)
MAF sensor out swapped for known good by garage - no change to fault.
EGR cleaned out (well caked in crud) and re-installed.

[Gnerk]

Right. FIXED the fncker.

Took it to the Renault garage on Palantine Road in Worthing and they diagosed a faulty wiring harness that was shorting on the gear linkage (or similar). They offered in the first instance to repair the harness from parts of used harnesses (rather than the cut and shut repair which had apparently already been attempted on the car). After we discussed a new loom (nearly £800 with labour) we settled on the repair.

I've had the car back since Saturday and it has been running fine - no stalls at all. Car now booked for the trip to France. Cost was £298.80 incl VAT.

I'd rather not have had the fault, but to get the main stealer to repair it for what seems to me to be quite reasonable money (given that I had little truck elsewhere) hasmdae me quite happy given the agro I was having with the car.

Just need to get some miles on it now.

- Ian.

[R9UKE]

Ian,

Glad to hear an update with a positive tone.

Hopefully it'll enjoy being on home turf and provide excellent service in return... bonne chance